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Who is the most Over-rated wrestler there is. Past or present


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#1 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 03:47 PM

This topic is about who you believe is the most over-rated wrestler there is. Whether it be WWE, TNA, or other. Past or present. I hope that this topic lasts a long time, and gets plenty of replies.

Over-rated wrestlers:

1. Jeff Hardy- Most of you know, that I am not a Hardy fan. If you don't know, look here.

2. Scott Steiner- Really doesn't have much ability now-a-days. In his prime, he was pretty good though.

3. Sandman- Is nothing but a hardcore spot monkey. He can't do anything without his cane.

4. Sabu- Same reasons as Sandman pretty much. He also botches moves constantly, I understand that it's difficult to do, but it's just so frequent.

5. Batista- Has little ability in the ring, and greatly lacks charisma. He has no character. He is really like the early Goldberg, no charisma, but you can't beat him.

6. RVD- A highly athletic spot-monkey. Better than Hardy, but still over-rated.

I will add more, when I think of them. So everybody, please post your opinions. If you want more debate, look at some of my other topics.

Edited by phoenixsplash630, 19 May 2008 - 04:23 PM.


#2 Kiyomi Takada

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 04:15 PM

Scott Steiner overrated? Are you out of your mind? No offense, but the man used to be brilliant, and he's still a really solid worker and was in one of the best tag teams ever. And Jeff Hardy, well everyone knows about that. But for Steiner he's not really overrated as people don't talk of him as if he's Kurt Angle Super Legend, I've never seen anyone really describe him as the best wrestler in the world or anything, so he can't exactly be overrated. If anything he's underrated.

Most overrated? Probably Undertaker, because he's good, but not the awesome super big man who's never had a bad match in his life that was his fault guy that people describe him as. Kane's pretty overrated too, well, since 2001 anyway. Rob Van Dam is too, because you can't spell overrated without RVD, although he was damn good in 2002 and prior to that.

In all honesty, most indy guys are pretty overrated, by the internet anyway. I don't care what anybody says, but just because you wrestle for ROH or in Japan or wherever, and you can do tons of flashy moves, doesn't make you a great wrestler.

But because I'm dull and unexciting, I'll stick with 'Taker.

#3 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 04:22 PM

I agree about Steiner, he was amazing in his prime. But people still think he is like that, which he isn't. We've talked about Taker before, and it's probably the same with Kane for you.

But, I don't understand this. How can you say that RVD is over-rated and not say that Jeff Hardy was? Their styles are so similar, except that RVD has better charisma. Possibly better ability also. That just doesn't make sense to have one without the other, I forgot to put RVD on mine, but I'll add him now.

I agree with you about Indy guys. It's like Evans, he is great to watch, and can do amazing things, but it doesn't make him the best wrestler ever. Or Yoshitsune, in Japan. He can do insane flips and things like that, but he isn't the best ever. Although, Yoshitsune doesn't totally rely on flips, as he can sell moves, and put on a match. He may have good charisma, I can't really tell though, because I don't speak Japanese.

#4 Kiyomi Takada

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 04:27 PM

View Postphoenixsplash630, on May 19 2008, 04:22 PM, said:

But, I don't understand this. How can you say that RVD is over-rated and not say that Jeff Hardy was? Their styles are so similar, except that RVD has better charisma. Possibly better ability also. That just doesn't make sense to have one without the other, I forgot to put RVD on mine, but I'll add him now.
RVD can't sell to save his life. Ever seen his match with Benoit from SummerSlam? Whereas Hardy is one of the better sellers in wrestling, RVD is "move, sell, move, sell, move, no sell". RVD doesn't have better charisma, they're about the same because they get similar reactions and both of their mic skills are on the same level of poor. RVD doesn't tell stories in his matches well at all, whereas Hardy can.

Their styles are different. Just because they both fly doesn't mean its the same. RVD's is hit my own stuff and let my opponent do it from there, Hardy's is, let his opponent do it, sell, then make comebacks, then hit my own stuff. Hardy is in no way overrated.

#5 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 04:54 PM

I think that RVD has better mic skills than Hardy. Partly because he actually uses the mic. Sure, pointing and saying R-V-D doesn't give you mic skills, but he was better than Hardy. Whenever Hardy gives a promo, it always just says, "I've wanted this my whole life, and I will beat you (insert name here) and you won't be able to stop me." Or something along those lines. Where RVD actually talks during his promos, and puts a point across. His differ, depending who he is facing. I also think that RVD got a slightly better crowd reaction than Jeff did.

#6 Kiyomi Takada

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:01 PM

View Postphoenixsplash630, on May 19 2008, 04:54 PM, said:

I also think that RVD got a slightly better crowd reaction than Jeff did.
He did, but Hardy's are much bigger now. And mic skills mean nothing for how good a wrestler is. That's like saying Benoit isn't one of the best ever because he couldn't cut a good promo. As I've said many times before, the fact Hardy has no mic skills is a testament to how good he must be to get as over as he has. So what else you got? Cause I sure don't see anything about RVD's bad bad selling and Jeff having superior selling, or that Hardy generally works a better match.

#7 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:08 PM

Most of you're' opinions on "Overated" are nonsense, Scott Steiner is doing what he does best in TNA and it's act tough with mic skills, I don't see how he is Overated quite frankly, and RVD are you kidding me?? RVD is an athletic high flying wrestler with mic skills and is doing (And has done) what he's best at. Batista is kind of Overated but not like John Cena is as they both started as rookies in almost the same way and ended up as big dogs.

How could you forget John Cena cause since you did....that make's me think that you are a John Cena fan. Which is no problem at all but I'm just letting you know that he is #1 "Overated" !!


#8 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:09 PM

I didn't say that mic skills make a superstar. Hardy's are bigger now, because they are still around.

As for reactions, a lot of fans like flippy moves and big falls. I'm not saying that everyone is like this, but it is a large part of wrestling fans. Especially in the younger population. Jeff is probably a better seller, but RVD wasn't like a Khali per say. I think it was you who said Khali's no selling is a good thing, due to his size. RVD's no selling was because part of his gimmick, was that he was like Gumby, and could absorb and bounce back from blows.

Jeff works better matches lately, because he has faced the likes of Jericho, HBK, Orton, Triple H, and so on. He has been given opponents who pretty much always have good matches. They also do most of the work, all Jeff has to do is sell, and then hit a Twist of Fate and a Swanton, that's usually it.

#9 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:17 PM

Jeff hardy or The Hardyz Shall I say have made history since their first Ladder Tag ever. Then it went to bigger matches like the TLC Ladder title triple threat match. What Jeff and Matt have been doing recently is forming a 1 Man dynasty, in other words, Going solo. They're tag performance has made enough history, the Solo performance is what needed to improve and has improved lately. So the Hardyz do have a bright future if WWE gives it to them as well as they deserve it more than anyone.

#10 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:22 PM

View PostBlood On The Sand, on May 19 2008, 07:17 PM, said:

Jeff hardy or The Hardyz Shall I say have made history since their first Ladder Tag ever. Then it went to bigger matches like the TLC Ladder title triple threat match. What Jeff and Matt have been doing recently is forming a 1 Man dynasty, in other words, Going solo. They're tag performance has made enough history, the Solo performance is what needed to improve and has improved lately. So the Hardyz do have a bright future if WWE gives it to them as well as they deserve it more than anyone.

Wow, jumping off of ladders and going through tables definitely makes you great. I guess John Zandig is the best wrestler ever then.

1 man dynasty, winning a US or Intercontinental title makes you a dynasty? I don't think so.

I like Matt, as he has ability and charisma, I do not like Jeff though.

Lust, still awaiting your reply. I love these debates with you.

#11 Kiyomi Takada

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:27 PM

View Postphoenixsplash630, on May 19 2008, 05:09 PM, said:

I didn't say that mic skills make a superstar. Hardy's are bigger now, because they are still around.

As for reactions, a lot of fans like flippy moves and big falls. I'm not saying that everyone is like this, but it is a large part of wrestling fans. Especially in the younger population. Jeff is probably a better seller, but RVD wasn't like a Khali per say. I think it was you who said Khali's no selling is a good thing, due to his size. RVD's no selling was because part of his gimmick, was that he was like Gumby, and could absorb and bounce back from blows.

Jeff works better matches lately, because he has faced the likes of Jericho, HBK, Orton, Triple H, and so on. He has been given opponents who pretty much always have good matches. They also do most of the work, all Jeff has to do is sell, and then hit a Twist of Fate and a Swanton, that's usually it.
Well, why would you mention mic skills in an overrated wrestler topic if it wasn't relevant? You lost me there. And RVD was around before Jeff, so they've been evened out. Jeff Hardy right now is probably more over than RVD has ever been, bar a period in late 2002 when everyone wanted RVD to be World Champion, but then got buried down the card.

RVD's gimmick? No, RVD's selling was the whole "you do your thing, and I'll just do mine regardless". There is no excuse, ever, for no-selling. I don't think I said Khali's no selling is a good thing, I probably said I don't mind it since he actually can't sell for shit, and it makes him a bad wrestler - but he's a fine gimmick. If you're going to hit moves anyway, sell while doing them. Nothing aggrivates me more than Benoit working over the legs of RVD, only for him to hit kicks, rolling thunders, and then leap onto the top rope for the five star. RVD was a crap seller, because of his inconsistencies. Jeff Hardy is an amazing seller of moves, and has been throughout his entire career.

If it was that easy to have a great match with Jericho, HBK, Orton, HHH, everyone would do it. The fact is, Jericho's best match since coming back (other than Michaels this Sunday) was Jeff Hardy. HHH's best match since No Mercy was Jeff Hardy (and HHH doesn't always have good matches, no). For HBK, he does always have great matches. Jeff Hardy did more to put over Orton as a badass heel champion than anybody else had up until Wrestlemania, and Orton helped Hardy. And to say that all he did was two moves is ridiculous, I seriously consider you rewatch those matches. The Orton match was almost entirely Hardy, the HHH match was practically 50-50, the HBK match was very even, as was the Jericho matches. I have no idea where you get these theories from, because you're just saying stuff that's just not true. Hardy's done loads to add to his moveset, and has utilized it perfectly the past four months. Seriously, rewatch them, because you weren't paying much attention. To have great matches like Hardy's been having, it takes two people. Nobody is carried to a great match, people are carried to good matches.

#12 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:31 PM

You don't understand, The Hardyz didn't only wrestle in Ladder and Table Matches, they wrestled many times in Normal Tag Matches and they showed a heck of a performance, they're' Tag performance is Outstanding, Enough Said about that. Winning an Intercontinental Championship is the start of showing You're' progress so far, but winning a WWE championship is where history has been made by either Hardy boy, Jeff has alot of guts and technique as well as mic skills, same thing for Matt as they both compete for Top Class and has shown that throughout this past year as well as this year. But if I make a prediction, it's Matt vs Jeff in the future for No.1 Contenders spot to go on for WWE Championship Match.

#13 Sergio

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:31 PM

For the sake of throwing something in here about Hardy...

Is it at all possible that Jeff's popularity was a factor of him looking like an Indy Style wrestler in a WWF ring? For instance, I started watching WWF in late 1999. He was popular as all hell with Matt as The Hardy Boyz. The swanton bomb got a loud pop as well as taking off his shirt. Girls love the guy for how he looks, regardless of his skill. Well, tons of girls, not the hardcore wrestling fanatics that are in it for the story and skill. Anyway, WWF seemed like a safe wrestling place. People don't really go all out for high risk, death defying, spot fest style moves, but Jeff's main reactions came from his no shirt, swanton, and jumping from high places. He stood out from the rest of the roster. (possibly a reason as to why Foley was so "great" as well. He did always use hardcore in his style, mainly to mess himself up with high spots and mutilation).

In that sense, Jeff paved the way for his popularity... his way. It wasn't because he was such a great wrestler, but because he was a great entertainer. He made his own legacy and it showed when he debuted in TNA. His return to WWE was further proof that Hardy still had "it". He's essentially like Hogan in the sense that you can't kill his popularity.

I don't think that in Jeff's case, he's popular or even more so than ever due to improving in the ring. He's just a pretty boy who has that sort of charisma that makes him a fan favorite. Being pushed, coupled with his ring work, only makes him continue to shine, and well... possibly help him gain more respect and fans due to the likability from people who liked him less in the past. He went from a low card to main event status and he's still as popular as ever. Heck, even being suspended did not hinder the loud pop he got when he came back. It's kind of hard to turn your back on him.

#14 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:38 PM

Technically, I brought up charisma, you brought up mic skills, lat.

For the matches, I know it takes two for greatness, but it always seems like the other wrestler is doing more work. For putting over Orton as a tough psycho heel, I think RVD did that best actually. At ONS when Orton attacked RVD, and "ended his career" this is when Orton got the whole Sadistic thing. This is where he started working over the head of his opponents more, to play off the viscous thing. He also somewhat started the whole Psychotic attitude here, against RVD. RVD sold all of these moves very well.

About Jeff and the move-set, sure he has over the last four months, but what about the rest of his career. He really couldn't do much in his early days. A good streak of impressive matches doesn't make you great, or make a career, It helps your career, but people don't forget what came before it.

RVD only got buried, because Triple H did his usual suck-up to the boss routine, and convinced them that RVD wasn't over enough. Because of that, RVD was buried. Jeff rose up, because Triple H moaned and comlained, because he wanted to get his title shot at Wrestlemania. Thus, Jeff won the match, and got a main event push.

EDIT: Jaac, you only mentioned how the ladder and TLC matches made history, you said nothing about anything else.

Sergio, Yes. Back then fans were more into the indy style, fast paced style of wrestling. Because it was during the "attitude era," where that is kind of all they knew at the time. I won't doubt Jeff's popularity, but he hasn't earned it really, like you said. He got it by Sawntons and taking off his shirt.

When Jeff came to TNA, he was pretty rusty actually. He admitted that himself, he also said that in no way could he keep up with the X-Division. I hated Jeff in TNA, mainly due to only Hardcore style matches, and all of the no shows. The no shows, were just constant. I lost even more respect for him, because of these. He then would get fired, and head back to WWE, where he would receive a suspension a while later.

Edited by phoenixsplash630, 19 May 2008 - 05:46 PM.


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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:39 PM

Replying to Sergio's Post

You're' right about the details on how he's a good entertainer and also a "Pretty boy", but really I think he's improved alot in his ring actions in the Main Events, not really to Entertain but to work his way to a WWE championship spot, and he has so but fails due to a dumb script. His high flying manuvers weren't shown much besides his Fin and his other Sig. Moves like the Whisper in the Wind, etc. Of course many Female Fans cheer/root for Jeff because he's a pretty boy, but really also cause he's Great Competitor to Watch which is part of the reason to why he is so "Popular" and a great "Entertainer".


#16 Sergio

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:44 PM

I'm not denying Hardy's improvement, but I also think that his improvement has to do with who he is currently fighting with. He's battling with the likes of Jericho, Triple H, HBK, Kennedy, Umaga, and others... so essentially, he can't really look believable against them if he was to be a spot monkey. In WWE, when you reach main event level, you have to slow your self down and become a safer player.

#17 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 05:50 PM

View PostSergio, on May 19 2008, 07:44 PM, said:

I'm not denying Hardy's improvement, but I also think that his improvement has to do with who he is currently fighting with. He's battling with the likes of Jericho, Triple H, HBK, Kennedy, Umaga, and others... so essentially, he can't really look believable against them if he was to be a spot monkey. In WWE, when you reach main event level, you have to slow your self down and become a safer player.

I said the exact same thing, he seems better, because of who he is facing.

About slowing down, Mysterio is a great example of this. He used to be a fast paced, highflying wrestler. But once he hit it big in WWE, you could see a dramatic change.

#18 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:00 PM

Yes I see you're' point, and correct it has been a dramatic change for a "spot monkey" but I guess it's all part of the script right. At least Jeff does what he does best......Entertain.

#19 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:04 PM

View PostBlood On The Sand, on May 19 2008, 08:00 PM, said:

Yes I see you're' point, and correct it has been a dramatic change for a "spot monkey" but I guess it's all part of the script right. At least Jeff does what he does best......Entertain.

I don't even find Jeff entertaining. A swanton, a dance, or a 30 foot jump, doesn't really enertain me.

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:07 PM

Where's you're' Hardy Spirit Boiii!!!!

Do I need to call up......The APA :P

Edited by Blood On The Sand, 19 May 2008 - 06:07 PM.


#21 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:08 PM

It's no secret to anyone here, that I don't like Jeff Hardy. At all. Never have, and probably never will.

#22 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:09 PM

It's all good, I hate The Great Khali and nobody's surprised !! :D

#23 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:15 PM

I've said a lot about not liking Hardy, in a few topics. Being a spot-monkey in this sense:

Posted Image

Is far different than being one in this sense:

Posted Image

Because, the second one requires athletic ability. The first one, is just some stupid stunt, that anyone can do.

Both GIFs made by D_Money. The first is WWEFalloutboy RULE's avatar.

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:30 PM

Yes I get you're' point but idk if this is the same case or not but wouldn't Randy Orton be doing the same thing Jeff has, not including the high flying shit I mean like in General, many females liking him cause of his look's which gives him some of the popularity but in other word's Orton being nothing but a fluke, what do you think??

#25 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:33 PM

View PostBlood On The Sand, on May 19 2008, 08:30 PM, said:

Yes I get you're' point but idk if this is the same case or not but wouldn't Randy Orton be doing the same thing Jeff has, not including the high flying shit I mean like in General, many females liking him cause of his look's which gives him some of the popularity but in other word's Orton being nothing but a fluke, what do you think??

I think that it is different, because Randy Orton has great in ring ability. He also possesses great charisma.