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Who is the most Over-rated wrestler there is. Past or present


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#26 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:42 PM

Charisma cause he is kool in General and his Ring-In ability is great but still he's a fluke in many matches in what I've seen and hopefully you've seen

#27 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:44 PM

Which matches are you talking about? Give me some examples, so I know what you're talking about.

#28 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:50 PM

The Wrestlemania Triple threat, HHH was so suppos tto win after Orton being treated like dirt and Orton just kicks him in the head and pins cena after pedigree was delivered, also HBK vs Orton when HBK completely owned orton and then out of nowhere with an RKO, and there were plenty more my friend, you need to watch some WWE.

#29 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 06:55 PM

I watch plenty, thank you. But that is just how it is scripted to happen, nothing he can do about that. He still performed very well in those matches.

#30 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 07:23 PM

I know it's scripted I'm just letting you know that he's a fluke, IMO.

#31 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 07:26 PM

But you're saying that it is a fluke, due to the writing. Or at least that is what it sounds like.

#32 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 07:30 PM

The way the scirpt goes is causing orton to do action's that will make people obviously say or think that Orton's a fluke, ya get me now??

#33 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 07:43 PM

Yes, but the writing still doesn't make him a fluke. It can make it look that way, but it can't actually do it.

#34 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 07:48 PM

Well that's the point of a script, Good or Bad feelings it really won't matter. The fans are the ones that show wether they like it or not.

#35 Kiyomi Takada

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 12:51 AM

View Postphoenixsplash630, on May 19 2008, 06:15 PM, said:

I've said a lot about not liking Hardy, in a few topics. Being a spot-monkey in this sense:

Posted Image

Is far different than being one in this sense:

Posted Image

Because, the second one requires athletic ability. The first one, is just some stupid stunt, that anyone can do.

Both GIFs made by D_Money. The first is WWEFalloutboy RULE's avatar.
*holds back temptations to yell ...* The first one was used to build up a feud, and has nothing to do with his in-ring ability. The second one looks overly scripted, unbelievable (not in the good way) and just shows the blatant scripted nature of wrestling. That's the last thing you want to do. Sure, anyone can jump twenty feet, so why don't you try it, or me? Why? Because you have to land pretty crisply to avoid being hurt, which you can't appreciate.

As for the rest of the argument, I stopped reading towards the Triple H politics bit holding RVD back - that just about killed anything you could have had in your argument when you brought HHH's politicking into an overrated wrestler topic. The debate is too tedious and repetitive for my liking, and it still just seems like you're picking at scraps, despite the fact that loads of people have given you lots of reasons to like Jeff Hardy, but you come back and say "oh it was all the other person".

And don't get me started on the "he used to be crap". Sure he wasn't as good as he is now, but back then people didn't say he had the potential to be WWE Champion, so he wasn't overrated at all. Its only since he improved his came and put on great matches consistently that people say he could be WWE Champion, funny that.

Seriously, I'm done, you seem to have an unhealthy hatred for Jeff Hardy and don't seem to listen at all to the fact that he's improving. You hate Jeff Hardy, and nothing anybody can say can change that, I get it. It just comes across as being very naive, like you don't care what anybody says, you're never going to acknowledge the good parts, and therefore I don't see the point in debating this any longer.

#36 Atheist

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 01:52 AM

He doesn't like Jeff Hardy because he's a hater. That's all there is to it. There's really no reason to hate Jeff Hardy, at all. Unless you think that he hasn't worked hard to get where he is (and obviously he messed it up, but he HAS improved, or WWE wouldn't have pushed him as they did. Plain and simple.)

He is by no means a "spot monkey" because he doesn't even do anything that's that impressive, except for take big leaps. A lot of wrestlers take big leaps, and Jeff Hardy's don't always end a match. They're his character, they're to show that he's a not-afraid-of-anything badass who will do what it takes when it's necessary. He takes the risk, even if the bad could, and often does, outweigh the good. Risk vs. reward is all it does. In another thread somebody pointed out how his last few matches weren't won by a huge spot, too.

If you ask me, a real spot monkey is the ones who do the "athletic" flips, jumps, etc. While what they're doing requires more effort... So? It's not that visually appealing, at least, if you have a brain. And what I mean by that is, it's totally and completely unrealistic, there's no reason you would ever do a 450, corkscrew, double moonsault, etc. except to get over. All Jeff does is a half-corkscrew (witw) which makes sense, because he leaps at standing opponents and kicks them with his heel, and the Swanton Bomb is a realistic high flying move in the sense that a leg drop is... It's low risk, it doesn't hurt him as much as a splash move, etc.

Jeff Hardy is not a spot monkey, the only people who hate him are the fans of real spot monkeys, who think that the indy wrestlers who do nothing but impressive flips should be where Hardy is, because Hardy got where he is with his edgy style and looks.

As for most over-rated, although I don't remember much from his early career, I would have to say that Hulk Hogan is vastly over-rated in this day and age. He doesn't do a show unless he's the main event, even though his matches are god awful (unless he has HBK carrying him). All he does is basically what John Cena did (I say did because he, too, is improving) in just hulking up then whipping ass and winning.

And as for your reasoning about Sandman and Sabu... Why is Mick Foley not there if those are your reasons? All you're doing is hating on spotters, but guess what, it's entertaining. Unless you're over analytical, which you are, and that's not a good thing by the way. Spot monkeys are entertaining because it's HOLY SHIT every time (almost, if they do the same thing it's old, but I personally never get sick of seeing people get caned to death). Really, the only person that makes sense in your list is Batista.

Edited by Purity, 20 May 2008 - 01:57 AM.


#37 KrossFire

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 02:15 AM

^^^Whoa, Purity, i wouldn't take it that far as to calling someone a hater it's jus an opinion, and he has good enough reason not to be a jeff hardy fan, he's seen way better and believe it or not jeff isn't the greatest highflyer in the world, and like Lust said, the 20 feet drops and so on are jus overly scripted moves, who personally wants to make sacrifices like that that to entertain especially since it wasn't necessary, you seem to defend hardy because, you never get a chance to see real highflying, if 450 splashes, corkscrews and standing somersaults are jus spot monkey moves to you, then thats fine but calling someone whose seen better then hardy a hater is pretty harsh.......

#38 Atheist

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 02:24 AM

If you would read what I had posted, I said he is a hater because he hates Hardy despite what everybody says to back him, he still gives him no credit at all. Ok, I didn't say that but I meant it. I didn't call him a hater because he has "seen better" wrestlers than Hardy, but because he has no actual basis to hate him by. Given all of the realistic reasons behind why Hardy is good, he gives him ZERO credit.

Calls him over-rated because in the PAST Hardy only got over because of his risk moves, even though that's not really over-rated, as Lust pointed out, because he wasn't a main eventer. And thinks he's over-rated now, why? There's really no reason why, Jeff Hardy is a skilled wrestler, maybe not the best, I would go so far as to say that he probably needs a little more work to be champion material (especially his mic skills. Mic skills don't make a good wrestler, but they do certainly help a good wrestler look great with the gold), but he deserves at least a little credit for how far he's come.

So, he's a hater not because there are "better" high-fliers that he likes more, but because he gives him no credit. Which is true.

#39 KrossFire

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 02:32 AM

^well, i have to agree with you on that, he did do some amazing things in the past, but he's really WWE's best highflying, next to Rey-Rey and Shelton, so i guess you really gotta give a little credit.....

#40 Atheist

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 02:38 AM

Yeah you're not getting the point. I am saying he was bad in the past and ONLY got over for his spots. Where as, today he has improved in-ring, a lot, and deserves credit for that.

#41 KrossFire

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 02:41 AM

oh i get you, yea i understand, you're right, as when he was fighting umaga he did show in-ring skill instead of his death-defying moves which is an improvement instead of those dangerous moves he use to perform......

#42 Tommy

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 04:44 AM

The most over rated
Easy

Batista

Also, yes thats fair play, he can backflip twice onto dude, and still look very cool IMO B)
But, thats a 30 foot drop. Yes, he fell into basically a ball pit, but may i remind you of what can happen at scripted heights? Owen Hart?
So what, Hardy jumped half the height, its still enough to kill or at best paralyse if something goes wrong

#43 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 05:24 AM

First, you say a 450 splash is unrealistic, understandable/ You say that a 30 foot Swanton isn't, I disagree. How it was used to build up the storyline, there are better ways to do that. But, this is the only way that Jeff knows how to do it.

I brought up Triple H, Lust, because you brought up how RVD didn't win the title and was buried, and I brought up why.

I'd make this longer, but I have to go right now.

I didn't put Foley on my list, because of his charisma, and he had skill, other than bumps.

Edited by phoenixsplash630, 20 May 2008 - 05:26 AM.


#44 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 06:23 AM

But like he said " You're' a HATER", no credit at all for Jeff?? Ignorance is the perfect word for that.

#45 Lenox

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 10:51 AM

View PostBlood On The Sand, on May 20 2008, 07:23 AM, said:

But like he said " You're' a HATER", no credit at all for Jeff?? Ignorance is the perfect word for that.

That is one of the best posts I've ever seen you post, man. Ignorance is the perferct word, everyone is giving amazing reasons on why to at least like him a little, but you still stick by your word and say you will not like Jeff ever. I know your allowed to have your own opinion, but how can you say he isn't anything but a "spot monkey", for every high flying move I've seen him do he has at least just as great a match to back it up.

#46 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 11:06 AM

I guess Pheonix after all is a Hater, and hopefully even proud to be. Everyones against you Pheonix, if you don't give Jeff any credit just cause you don't like him then you got a lot to learn boi.

Edited by Blood On The Sand, 20 May 2008 - 11:06 AM.


#47 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 01:12 PM

Dude, that post lost all credibility, with the ending of boi. I must be wrong, if somebody actually agrees with Jaac, lat.

Calling me a hater, I'm not offended, but I think it's going a bit too far.

Sure, Jeff isn't just a spot monkey, but that makes up most of his arsenal. I don't feel like repeating my self again, so read my past posts if you want my opinion.

All can still feel free to post who they think is over-rated.

#48 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 01:19 PM

When I said "Boi" I referred myself too "You still got a bit to learn", not giving Jeff any credit cause you don't like him is plan Ignorance and of course "A hater".

#49 phoenixsplash630

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 01:23 PM

Just because I don't like somebody, it makes me ignorant and a hater? That doesn't make sense to me.

#50 BIG~FAT~CHICKEN

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 01:27 PM

I didn't say that, I said because you give no credit to someone who's done a lot in the WWE business.