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The Big Bang Theory [/lol]


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#1

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 01:56 AM

What are your thoughts on the Big Bang Theory?

My question is how on earth is this theory probable in the creation of the planets? How did gases combust into an explosion? Better yet, where did these gases come from? I still think God had a role in our creation.

Question: How were YOU put into this world?

Answer: You were created by your parents.

Question: Who created your parents?

Answer: They were created by their own parents.

Hmm... see a connection? Same applies to animals. There has to be a source. Something had to have been around to create us in order for us to create more of us.

This may be another Science vs. Religion topic, but how is an explosion the cause for life? Are we to believe that when a bomb blows up, that we are to expect life to evolve out of the explosion's aftermath?

The Big Bang Theory is just what it is. A Theory. It's not a fact. This is just science trying to bully religion with a failed attempt at explaining how we came into existance.

#2 DLT

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:11 AM

Failed attempt? Sergio please.. there has been plenty of evidence that the Big Bang threory is true, the fact that the universe is still expanding, left over gases etc. Wheres the prrof of Religion? There is none.

Okay, so you think that because everyone has Parents that there must've been an Adam and Eve? Okay.. So I have parents, so did my parents.. but lets take another random person who is unrelated to me, he/she had parents, they had parents etc.
However, if they all came from 2 people, then over the million (or thousands if your religious) of years there would become less variation not more, we would all end up the same but we are not, not even close. Whats more, test their DNA.. if we all came from 2 people then we would all have the same DNA or atleast some similarities but take any two random people and their DNA does not contain ANY similarities. It rules out any possibility that we came from just two people because it is impossible for there to be a complete variation in DNA in any one family line no matter how far you take it.

Evolution happens.. A species continues to reproduce and eventually there is some difference, if this difference helps or makes something easier then that animal has an increased chance to survive, thus the animals who don't have it die out quicker until eventually (over a very long period of time)* the change is in every animal and there are none left without it. That is what evolution is and it makes sense, nothing I have ever heard from the Bible makes logical sense to me.
One more thing I would like to point out, you said:

There has to be a source

And I agree, but not in the way you mean it. You mean it as "everyone has parents so there must be a universal parent" but that is not true, it is a known fact it takes several million of one species in order for an population as big as ours to start & survive, it is laughable to think a population of several billion could come from one couple. Moreover, if everything has a source, what was the source "God" and PLEASE don't say "he was just there" because NOTHING can just "be there." I honestly don't see how any intelligant, logical thinking person can ever believe in Religion because it is SO flawed.

*(the amount of time the Earth has supposedly been around for according to the bible means there was no-where near enough time for evolution to occur)

#3

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:20 AM

I'm laughing at the thought of the Big Bang being true lol.

Enlighten me as to how these gases were formed out of nothingness. Also, how is a theory true :lol: ? Who was there during this Big Bang to record it?

BTW... in the Bible it states that Adam and Eve lived to be many hundreds of years old. ;) Imagine all the reproduction and incest that occured then in that amount of time.

LOL, the bible states the earth is younger than what scientists state? My dear friend... the earth is as old as man can recall according to the bible. We have a better estimate now of it's age, but back then in biblical times, they had no idea of dinosaurs or time before man.

I'm still puzzled at how evolution came from well... nothingness. :mellow:

And as for how was God there... well my friend, that puzzles everyone don't it?

#4 DLT

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:28 AM

Sergio517, on Aug 21 2006, 12:20 PM, said:

I'm laughing at the thought of the Big Bang being true lol.

Enlighten me as to how these gases were formed out of nothingness. Also, how is a theory true :lol: ? Who was there during this Big Bang to record it?

BTW... in the Bible it states that Adam and Eve lived to be many hundreds of years old. ;) Imagine all the reproduction and incest that occured then in that amount of time.

LOL, the bible states the earth is younger than what scientists state? My dear friend... the earth is as old as man can recall according to the bible. We have a better estimate now of it's age, but back then in biblical times, they had no idea of dinosaurs or time before man.

I'm still puzzled at how evolution came from well... nothingness. :mellow:

And as for how was God there... well my friend, that puzzles everyone don't it?
This is where Science and Religion turn out to share more then they realise. The Big Band theory is our "God" because we cannot explain where it came from but as far as we can tell it is what started life. This is very similar to the way you say God was just there and that he merely started life, which is why I can accept peoples religious views even if I don't agree with them.

The problem I have with Religion is it is very hypocritical and contradictory, incest is against Christianity, and yet it must've happened (as you yourself stated) in order for life to start from two people. I also stated that even if life could've started from just two people, there is enough evidence in the fact that we do not share the same DNA and are not all similar to proove that we cannot possibly have come from from just two people.

#5

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:40 AM

Understandable and logical. I also see flaws in both science and religion, but as for your comment on DNA...

Over time, the DNA alters. The bloodline of a family changes. For example:

I have half of my dad's blood and half of my mom's blood in me.
I have 1/4 of both my grandfathers' blood and 1/4 of both my grandmothers' blood.
At this rate, I will lose connection of my great great great grandparents bloodline.

If we bring evolution into this.. I will have to agree. I 100% agree that evolution takes place, but this is where I believe God made evolution a part of life and science just tries to explain it's logic for happening. In this case, I can not believe the Bing Bang Theory to be true as theory is not true, but merely one of the highest logical reasons according to science. They still need to explain how the elements that caused the Big Bang were created to begin with.

#6 DLT

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:46 AM

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I have half of my dad's blood and half of my mom's blood in me.
I have 1/4 of both my grandfathers' blood and 1/4 of both my grandmothers' blood.
At this rate, I will lose connection of my great great great grandparents bloodline.

As I stated earlier, it is impossible for there to be a complete variation in DNA in one family line no matter how far you take it. Take a number, say 2, half it you get 1 and again you get 0.5.. continue this and you will NEVER reach 0, just as you will never reach a point where you don't share some DNA with you great great great x infinity relatives.

I agree with your comments on they need to proove what started the Big Bang, and whereas I believe it, I do not believe it anymore then I would believe in God if that theory had as much proof as the Big Bang has thus far. However the Big Bang is nowhere near being proven, which is why I think there has to be a missing link somewhere.

#7 Ryan

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 06:04 AM

Yes you have a 1/4 of you grand parents blood ETC. but if two people started out then everyone would share the same DNA, there would be at least one common comparison betweens everyones DNA and scientist have proven in unrelated people there is no common comparision.

couple of questions:

If God created Everything, then who created God?

please answer me that...

I'd sooner believe the big bang theory than God created everything, simply because it is impossible for one being/spirit to create everything.

You ask where did those Gases come from, where did God come from?

I try not to think about God or how we was created, seriously I hope there is a God, I want to catch up with some old Friends and Relatives in heaven (or Hell) when I pass. I would also like to believe the big bang, but I dont, I'll admit that I have more faith in it than God, an I dont think that is right but it's just my opinion.

Like I said I try not to think about the past, how we got here or who put us here, my main focus is the future, but then again how can you be sure your not repeating the past/History if you dont know about it?

It's something we should all know IMO, who or what put life on earth but we'll never truely know.

#8

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 07:26 AM

BLOOMA, on Aug 21 2006, 07:04 AM, said:

If God created Everything, then who created God?

please answer me that...
That is something no one can answer. We don't know. No one knows. It's all faith really. If we are to believe in the big bang, then who let it happen? Obviously we can't seem to find an answer for both. God is supposed to be a supernatural being which is why science can not teach us about God or disprove God.

About the blood/ DNA again...

Adam and Eve were 2 people. 2 different DNA types.

Adam and Eve have children who all share the same blood.

We break it down as:

Adam = 100% his own blood
Eve = 100% her own blood
Children = 50/50 parents' blood

Other possiblities with incest = 75% Eve / Adam blood with 25% Adam/ Eve blood.

And so it gets trickier with each new generation.

On the topic of incest... Animals do it and humans had to have done it in order to survive, even in prehistoric times. Let's remember that during the time of Adam and Eve, the bible was not created. There was no incest = bad. As civilization grew, rules were made, etc.

#9 DLT

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 09:33 AM

Quote

We break it down as:

Adam = 100% his own blood
Eve = 100% her own blood
Children = 50/50 parents' blood

Other possiblities with incest = 75% Eve / Adam blood with 25% Adam/ Eve blood.

Doesn't matter how much you delve into the numbers, it doesn't change the fact that if the Adam & Eve story were true then no 2 strangers would have completely different DNA, and yet they do.

#10

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:57 AM

Demon Lord Tyrus, on Aug 21 2006, 10:33 AM, said:

Quote

We break it down as:

Adam = 100% his own blood
Eve = 100% her own blood
Children = 50/50 parents' blood

Other possiblities with incest = 75% Eve / Adam blood with 25% Adam/ Eve blood.

Doesn't matter how much you delve into the numbers, it doesn't change the fact that if the Adam & Eve story were true then no 2 strangers would have completely different DNA, and yet they do.
Um, yes. Over time DNA changes. We are refering to many, many years ago. DNA is not going to match up to someone's after all this time. Plus... why is there matching DNA in some cases with people having bloodtype A, B, AB, O, maybe more? There are people who are able to give others a blood transfusion.

If we get technical. No one has matching DNA. Everyone's DNA is unique. If humanity came from Adam and Eve, that does not mean that it was impossible to create different blood types.

I believe that God created us as very complex beings. We are the most sophisticated life forms to date. Science simply explains why we do what we do. God gave us a liver, heart, brain, blood, kidneys, etc... and science just helps us understand how these organs work. I say that religion and science go hand in hand.

If the bible describes the end of time occuring when a volcano erupts, then naturally science can explain why that volcano erupted. Let me get a bit clearer... If God creates gas 1 and gas 2 and both gases mixed cause an explosion, then science can explain why they combusted. Just because they can explain why it happened, does not mean that God didn't have anything to do with it.

It's like if I have sex and create a baby with a woman. Science then explains why this baby is created within the woman. Does that mean that just because they clarified it that I had nothing to do with the baby's creation?

#11 WWECW

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:18 AM

im not syre :unsure:
all i can say is ths is a very good tpic

i believe god had a role (im catholic)

#12 Ryan

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:46 AM

I get where your coming from and I understand but IMO Evolution gave us a heart, Liver, Kidneys, blood and a developed Brain, as we evolved from micro-organisms to Neanderthols and the inbetween, and also into Human beings again with all the inbetween, we developed and formed what we needed to survive in the enviroment that we did and do live in.

We taught ourselves how to create the esentials that we needed, such as for instance fire, the wheel, even clothes. If truth be told we are if anything less developed than other life forms on this planet we didn't evolve as quick or as suficiantly as others. during the Ice ages we had to slay animals for food and for clothing to keep us warm, other animals developed fur, and yes we gained some hair but not nearly enough. We had to create weapons to protect ourselves and also to hunt. We wasn't gifted at evolution but we did develope a brain that helped us create what we needed. The old saying does goes, the only tool you need is your brain. Our Brains gave us all we have in terms or material things, evolution gave us all we have in terms or adapting to our surroundings and surving.

I know that your going to say that God gave us a brain or suggest that, but IMO we evolved our own brains, there are animals with bigger brains that use, like horses and cows yet ours is the most powerful or so we believe. IMO we adapted ourselves we taught ourselves how to evolve and develope into what we are. The same thing with the big bang, space has no control because no one spirit or being can control it, things just happened because it had to for what ever reason the gases are there for many reason that we cant explain.

For me the old saying "you have to speculate to acumalate" falls forever true. Religion IMO was created by people all those years ago because they couldn't explain what was happening, In Christianity thats atleast the old testement. If you read the stories they are just explainations to why things happen. Such as Noah's arc, it explains rain, floods, and rainbows all in one. God created rain to flood out all the bad people and the Rainbow is a sign shown by God that a flood on that scale would never happen again, (to cut a long story short). So people speculated to why that happened and acumulated that God did it, and if you lie the lie gets big enough to the point where more people actually start to believe it's true. Now we know why it rains and why there are floods and rainbows occur. It rains because of the sun evaporating the water on earth and then the atmosphere cools the rising steam and it fails back down. Floods happen when the ground can no longer soak up the water failing, and rainbows occur when sunlight breaks through the clouds and reflects back off of the water failing.
IMO thats all the big bang theory is it's just speculation because we dont yet have the knowledge to explain how the earth was created, it's there to fule the minds of people who dont believe in God because they choose to follow science. The acumualting factor today is not God but scientific theories, eventually we will be able to figure out the truth or confirm God or the big bang but until then "speculate to acumualte" will continue.


I'll admit that I do believe in God simply because I have my reason but I accept science into my religion and put my own interperations together from what is given to me. IMO neither is wrong yet neither is it right, so I read the inbetweens, to give an answer that is true to me.

#13

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 12:10 PM

Understood, but it is still puzzling to know how bacteria was even made or micro-organisms for that matter.

I just had a thought.. science is so reliable and the explainations for things sound so pheasable that we just sit there and agree because it sounds good. Basically, science can lie to us / bullshit a reason to us for something, and we will blindly believe it because it sounds good. And I can say religion is similar.

According to religion... the belief in God creating things sounds a lot better than science saying organisms evolved into humans. You speak as if God has nothing to do with evolution. We don't know, but I think God made us advanced life forms for a reason. If we evolved from primates, then our God given brain helped us to become problem solvers whereas other species are not. Evolution would occur slowly over time. If the Ice Age sprung up on us, how do you expect humans to evolve into people who are of Ice Age climate? Would we somehow survive many years in the cold and evolve into harrier creatures? No. We evolved more by being smart aka problem solvers. We were given animals with attributes to help us overcome the climate. We couldn't just sit there and wait for evolution to make us harry enough to withstand Ice Age climate. I would say humans evolved more through their brain capacity.

One thing I ask is why do we eat? How did organisms eat? How did they just pop up and evolve us into eating creatures? Who created an atmosphere for organisms to have to evolve in the first place? This is where science is flawed. Very flawed IMO. It's all theories. Science can not truly explain the past unless there is recorded proof. I mean, they don't even have solid evidence for what killed the dinosaurs. It's all theories. While it is theories and nothing more... I admit that they do sound very good and pheasable. It just shows how our brains make us very creative.

EDIT: I am neutral with science and religion. IMO.. science simply interprets religion's actions. If Adam and Eve lived... science may clue us as to their existance. For all we know, they could have been organisms or primates thus allowing God's creation to evolve all while science explains it.

#14 DLT

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 12:32 PM

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If we get technical. No one has matching DNA. Everyone's DNA is unique. If humanity came from Adam and Eve, that does not mean that it was impossible to create different blood types.
Yes, yes it does. You see, every child is the same blood type as (one of) there parents, it is NOT possible to just "create" a new blood type because Adam & Eve's child would have one of there blood types, then assuming there must've been incest the next child would have the same, or the other, blood type. It is not possible for other to be created from nothing because a child will ALWAYS have the same blood type as one of its parents, and there are more then two blood types in the world.

Quote

It's all theories

You say that, as do others, as if Religion isnt all theory and thats what annoys me the most. Religion is a theory just as much a Science is, because no one can say for sure what actually happened.

-Edit-

Quote

EDIT: I am neutral with science and religion. IMO.. science simply interprets religion's actions. If Adam and Eve lived... science may clue us as to their existance. For all we know, they could have been organisms or primates thus allowing God's creation to evolve all while science explains it.

Thats not being neutral, thats saying "God does everything and then Science explains how it happens." No, Science is about proving how things can naturally happen without the addition of a "supreme force." In all honesty these topics are now beggining to annoy me.. it was fun at first but now I'm tired of seeing people laugh in the face of science when they believe some random dude sat up there in the sky and said "let there be light" I mean come off it. I cannot understand how people can actually believe that, but they do.. so I'll continue to believe in science just as stubbornly as they continue to believe their religion.

#15

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 12:43 PM

That's my neutral point of view. I can tell you the same. Come off it with thinking science is God. I'm not asking you to change your mind as these topics are made for debating. Why it gets you mad is beyong me. Perhaps debating is not your thing because it annoys you after a while. Or maybe you get annoyed when you fail to change someone else's perspective because subconsiously it may be your motive. Not saying it is, but it's a theory of mine here.

And Religion being theories is true. We did not live in the past so we can only form theories as well. I'm not saying science is theories and religion is not.

#16 DLT

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 12:46 PM

I don't think "science is god" and the only thing annoying me is how alot (not you, sorry if you think I meant you or directed that at you) of Religious people seem to believe they "need" to change others views, they can't accept it it seems. I don't need to change your beliefs, but I cant stand religion in general because it is ludicrous (opinion, not fact, no need to try to dispute that) and it has started so many "holy" wars in the past I just cannot respect anything it stands for.

#17

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 12:55 PM

Demon Lord Tyrus, on Aug 21 2006, 01:46 PM, said:

I don't think "science is god" and the only thing annoying me is how alot (not you, sorry if you think I meant you or directed that at you) of Religious people seem to believe they "need" to change others views, they can't accept it it seems. I don't need to change your beliefs, but I cant stand religion in general because it is ludicrous (opinion, not fact, no need to try to dispute that) and it has started so many "holy" wars in the past I just cannot respect anything it stands for.
Ah. I do not condone holy wars either. I have religious thoughts and beliefs, but I will not fight about it. Those who start wars over religion are idiots. They are not holy because I can't imagine Jesus whooping some guy's ass for not being jewish. I am not a fan of radical religious people. They give religion in general a bad name.

Religion itself is a man made "club." Many religions have been created simply because some guy decided to alter his religion and he made his own religion. For example: I go to church and I find it boring. I then get an idea to glorify a church band so I then create sergioism in which church focuses more on appealing to you by loud ass music. People do these crazy things. They dislike something and they create their own religion. It's crazy really.

Then you gets fanatics... :rolleyes: ( I want to beat them up so bad).

#18 Second Heartbeat

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 01:06 PM

No one will ever know anything about how the Earth was formed. People say there was a "Big Bang." Where well the hell did it come from? Who has the right to say it's true? No one can ever prove anything about this. I don't believe in God so that whole Adam and Eve crap is all bull$hit to me.

#19 Ryan

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 01:17 PM

Sergio517, on Aug 21 2006, 07:10 PM, said:

You speak as if God has nothing to do with evolution. We don't know, but I think God made us advanced life forms for a reason.
Ture, I didn't mean to not include God it was just how it sounded in my head when typing that made it sound better. I never actually said anything about God having a part in evolution, sorry for that. I do believe God had a part in Evolution, I think something you said or suggested is very true, Science explains further what the Bible or other religious books could not fully explain all those years ago. If God created evolution then we do have him to thank for our superior knowledge and problem solving brains over other forms of life on this earth.

Sergio517, on Aug 21 2006, 07:10 PM, said:

I would say humans evolved more through their brain capacity.
Exactly what I was trying to say we evolved in our brains, unlike other forms of life on our planet that could not, so they developed and evolved more by appearence more than we actually did.

One thing I ask is why do we eat?
We eat to create energy that allows us to move and do the things we do, food is our fule that we convert into energy, so the real question is, why do we need energy? or even what is energy? is God Energy?

Who created an atmosphere for organisms to have to evolve in the first place?
Again scientist would have us believe the big bang created gases that fused together around the new rocks that was created, these gasses then started to fuse to each other along with moisture that was being created by Hydrogen and Oxygen (hence H2O) to form perfect growing conditions for organisms, the bible would have us believe God, but then again I think organisms was a subject to advanced for those srciptures times.

the other questions I cant answer, I dont know if anyone can, I guess there is suposed to be an explaination for everything but if so what is the explaination to things that people only have theories of? A theory isn't an explaination or atleast isn't a reasonable explaination IMO. So what are the real explainations for things like our creation ETC

hmm... It seems to me that The big bang has replaced God in todays non-believing in God society as the creator of life. It kinda all comes down to the gasses and what not that fused to thoses rocks that was created due to the big bang that created life. Inastead of god. So who knows in another 2000 and maybe more years what the new story/theory is or maybe the old ones will be proven by then but people of our time will certainly never know for sure.

#20 magi9088

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 04:24 PM

Man, looks like I missed this. *Sigh* I guess it's time for me to give my two cents on the main proof that there is to the Big Bang Theory (since the topic title is The Big Bang Theory).

Scientists have attempted to listen to things out in space and heard a constant ringing interference. What caused this interference? Well, they checked and there was nothing wrong with the instruments and nothing in their way. The interference is said to come from the sound of the explosion still resonating through the universe.

Space is ever expanding. Well, why did it begin expanding in the first place? Something pushed it outward with such force that after Billions of years it is still expanding outward. What would cause something to extend out in all directions from a center point? An Explosion.

Sorry if the convo is beyond this, but just wanted to weigh in on it real quick.

#21 D-Ten

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:40 PM

Religion Vs Science - God created science he created everything, Everyone is focusing on earth but he created the universe, to me its not a matter of did He do it, Its how He did it big bang/creation

#22 PrettyBoyAJ

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:45 PM

And who created the the dust and all that crap too form the big bang?

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 07:41 PM

.theDJT, on Aug 21 2006, 06:45 PM, said:

And who created the the dust and all that crap too form the big bang?
True.

This is where we go in circles lol.

Who created the essential materials for the Big Bang?

Who created God?

2 questions without concrete answers.

In 8th grade, one of my friends gave me the best response to who created God. A response no one else ever mentioned.

I asked him, "who created God."

He replied, "we did."

We did. It doesn't mean that God was created by humans, but that he exists based on belief. Either your faith believes in him or not.

#24 Sergio

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:37 AM

Science...pfft. Science is all a bunch of crap...Yeah I ******* said it! The Big Bang Theory is a whole load of garbage IMO...Everything starting with an explosion sounds like something some n00b would say, how do things just explode into existance...

#25 Corey Grandy

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 03:12 AM

he exists based on belief

Possibly the smartest thing I've ever heard. Although this may sound a bit sacreligious in a way; the same goes for some other entities such as Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy among others. They exist based on the belief of children. In the same way, God exists based on those who believe he does. That is a very true statement, which I, from this point on will firmly believe.




Science, or at least the area of Science in which the Big Bang is probable, is a bunch of bullshit. You can't 'explode' something into existence. I'm sure if I went into my garage right now and caused an explosion it wouldn't result in an entire universe being started in my front yard. Junk is what the big bang theory is. Absolute junk.