Cena Haters
#26
Posted 12 July 2006 - 05:13 PM
#27
Posted 12 July 2006 - 06:07 PM
Most wrestlers do have trademarked moves, but they don't use them all together like Cena does. An example of this is "The American Dragon" Bryan Danielson. I don't know how many people here have heard of him, but a lot of people consider him to be nearly as good as Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle.
He has a ton of trademarked stuff. When the other guy grabs the ropes the ref will tell him to break the hold and Danielson will tell him he has until 5, the surfboard stretch, airplane spin to a diving headbutt, and he now does this thing where he acts like his eye got hurt, the crossface chickenwing and there's more, too. I think he did most of those in his third match against Roderick Strong at Supercard of Honor and it was a great match.
The problem is not that he has trademark moves, but because most of his matches are the same thing. Usually his opponent doesn't matter either. He could be facing Big Show or HHH and the match will usually be the same.
wwf, how many times has HHH had an actual match with nothing but that stuff?
#28
Posted 12 July 2006 - 06:31 PM
BucFan20, on Jul 12 2006, 07:07 PM, said:
#29
Posted 12 July 2006 - 07:14 PM
First there are the little children, both boys and girls. These kids are by no means incredible critics of actual wrestling, so they only make their decision on if they think the person is cool or not, or whther the person is a nice guy (face) or a mean guy (heel). A large percentage of this demographic absolutely love Cena, and everything he does.
Women come next. A lot of women are Cena fans simply because he is buff, but not too buff (ala Test currently). I'm not saying all women worldwide are Cena fans, but there are more female Cena fans than there are male Cena fans; as far as I'm concerned.
Finally the men. Yes, most people over 13 fit into this category. These are the kind of people who either love Cena or hate him. There are those who choose to analyze him (which is a school of thought I subscribe to), and those who are his unconditional fans; and that's cool and all. Most Cena fans like to point out how every other big name in the business has there own 'trademark set of moves'. This may be true, but, John Cena generally uses these as his only moves. Furthermore, just like Hulk Hogan, he refuses to properly sell a move, and somehow manages to get dominated in every match he's ever in, before winning in some astounding (yet never surprising) 'turn of events'.
If John expanded his list of moves, and started to sell moves, even half as good as some other top name wrestlers, I might be able to get behind him, just a little bit.
wwfpooh said:
BucFan20, on Jul 12 2006, 07:07 PM, said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but those were years ago, and frankly what he was doing years ago has no relevance to what he's doing now. One could say the same for Cena. When he was a heel he was doing much better wrestling than he is now, but we can't use that as an insentive for people to like what's hes doing now.
#30
Posted 12 July 2006 - 07:45 PM
Corey Grandy, on Jul 12 2006, 08:14 PM, said:
One could say the same for Cena. When he was a heel he was doing much better wrestling than he is now, but we can't use that as an insentive for people to like what's hes doing now.
Edited by wwfpooh, 12 July 2006 - 07:53 PM.
#31
Posted 12 July 2006 - 07:46 PM
anyway i dont think cena is all that cool as he tries to be..
but i think hes pretty good wrestler except the 6 moves ...
i think hes okay.. im 50/50 of him
#32
Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:06 PM
AND 1, on Jul 12 2006, 08:46 PM, said:
anyway i dont think cena is all that cool as he tries to be..
but i think hes pretty good wrestler except the 6 moves ...
i think hes okay.. im 50/50 of him
HHH, as previously stated with: Knee Lift, Anderson-esque Spinebuster, Cheat (Weapons or Low Blow) or Managerial Interferance, & Pedigree
Hogan: Body Slam (when younger), Axe Bomber Closeline (Japanese finisher), Hulk Up, Big Boot, & Atomic Leg Drop
Rock: Laying the Smackdown DDT, People's Spinebuster, Smackshooter, Rock Bottom & People's Elbow
Austin: Knee Strike, Mudhole Stomp (either as a turnbuckle or striking attack), Lou Thez Press Knuckles, & Stone Cold Stunner
Flair: Playing Dirty (see "Cheat" for HHH), Being Tossed off Top Rope, Beg-off Eye Rake, Low Blow, & Figure Four
Big Show (before deflecting to ECW): Closeline, Big Boot, Headbutt, Bear Hug, & Showstopper Chokeslam (or Hog Lock or Final Cut)
Khali (who's even worse than the rest combined): Toss, Big Boot, Headbut, Chokeslam, & Chop of Doom
And even my top faves:
2. Kane: Powerbomb (rarely done anymore), Throat Thrust, Kane Closeline off the top, Sit-Up (after being knocked down), & Chokeslam or Tombstone
1. Undertaker: Throat Thrust, Outside Plancha (Vintage Taker), Old School (Walking The Rope), Last Ride, Chokeslam, & Tombstone
Edited by wwfpooh, 12 July 2006 - 08:08 PM.
#33
Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:20 PM
Did you read what I said about Danielson? Every wreslter has trademark moves. CM Punk has the Pepsi Twist, Anaconda Vice, Pepsi Plunge, Welcome to Chicago. Low Ki has chops, kicks, Double Stomp, the other double stomp where the guy is hanging upside down from the turnbuckle, and the Ki Krusher. AJ Styles has his flip over the ropes, that backflip kick, shooting star press, and the Styles Clash. Those are their big, trademark moves, but that doesn't mean that's all they do in the match. Most of the time all Cena does in the match is throw punches, get beat up, and his trademark moves.
Edited by BucFan20, 12 July 2006 - 08:20 PM.
#34
Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:26 PM
BucFan20, on Jul 12 2006, 09:20 PM, said:
Did you read what I said about Danielson? Every wreslter has trademark moves. CM Punk has the Pepsi Twist, Anaconda Vice, Pepsi Plunge, Welcome to Chicago. Low Ki has chops, kicks, Double Stomp, the other double stomp where the guy is hanging upside down from the turnbuckle, and the Ki Krusher. AJ Styles has his flip over the ropes, that backflip kick, shooting star press, and the Styles Clash. Those are their big, trademark moves, but that doesn't mean that's all they do in the match. Most of the time all Cena does in the match is throw punches, get beat up, and his trademark moves.
#35
Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:39 PM
What Grandy said about Cena fans that are little kids is true. They don't care about how good of a wrestler someone is. A few might, maybe, but most of them don't like him because of his wrestling skill. They like him because of his personality or the way he looks or because he's the good guy. Same goes for some of the women. They think Cena looks good. Another thing that doesn't affect his wrestling skill. The only people that are really booing him are some of the men. They'd probably like him again if he started wreslting better. Most of the little kids and women don't care about Cena's wrestling skill and are going to cheer him if he's a face and boo him if he's a heel. They aren't going to start booing him if he starts wrestling better.
#36
Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:44 PM
BucFan20, on Jul 12 2006, 09:39 PM, said:
What Grandy said about Cena fans that are little kids is true. They don't care about how good of a wrestler someone is. A few might, maybe, but most of them don't like him because of his wrestling skill. They like him because of his personality or the way he looks or because he's the good guy. Same goes for some of the women. They think Cena looks good. Another thing that doesn't affect his wrestling skill. The only people that are really booing him are some of the men. They'd probably like him again if he started wreslting better. Most of the little kids and women don't care about Cena's wrestling skill and are going to cheer him if he's a face and boo him if he's a heel. They aren't going to start booing him if he starts wrestling better.
#37
Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:26 PM
His whole chain gang thing is just flat out stupid. It has no point what so ever. It would be one thing if he was in a group and that was there name but thats not the case. It is just only lonely man that wishes he was in a gang.
And now his wrestling. It is old boring and basicly the same thing is done every week. Now thats not saying that he is the only one that does/did it, but the thing is that they would then atleast add a move or two. And whats up with the "Five Knucle Shuffle"? That move is even dumber than "The Peoples Elbow." And his finsher, it may look cool the first few times when you see it but it is not that hard of a move to do or have done to you.
#38
Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:42 PM
1) Im getting ******* sick of this "All his fans are young kids" bullshit. Yes, they are a portion, that i won't deny. However, many of his fans are 19-25 year old guys, including myself. You can clearly see older guys wearing Cena shirts and holding Cena signs. Hell, some even chant for Cena. So don't gimme that bullshit.
2) Cena has an overcome the odds character. What does that mean? He gets beat up most of the match then comes back at the end and wins. Is it a good idea? No. But that's what he's been given. Plus, his gimmick is that of a thug, and what do thugs do? They brawl. And because of this, Cena is forced to brawl. You wouldn't expect to see thugs pull out german suplexes and moonsaults, would you? No.
3) His "cheesy" lines are from the ******* WWE "creative" team. They've been writing his material since he turned face. You notice his lines when he was a heel? Notice how they were much better? He was writing them at the time, but now, he doesn't write them. Instead, WWE writes his lines.
So yeah. Cena is a talented wrestler and i just had to get this out.
#39
Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:59 PM
EndZone, on Jul 13 2006, 12:42 AM, said:
Edited by PoeticMetal, 12 July 2006 - 11:01 PM.
#40
Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:05 PM
#41
Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:17 PM
Edited by PoeticMetal, 12 July 2006 - 11:20 PM.
#42
Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:18 PM
Like I said. Guy can't sell for shit and his delivery needs work
#43
Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:19 PM
EndZone, on Jul 12 2006, 11:42 PM, said:
1) Im getting ******* sick of this "All his fans are young kids" bullshit. Yes, they are a portion, that i won't deny. However, many of his fans are 19-25 year old guys, including myself. You can clearly see older guys wearing Cena shirts and holding Cena signs. Hell, some even chant for Cena. So don't gimme that bullshit.
2) Cena has an overcome the odds character. What does that mean? He gets beat up most of the match then comes back at the end and wins. Is it a good idea? No. But that's what he's been given. Plus, his gimmick is that of a thug, and what do thugs do? They brawl. And because of this, Cena is forced to brawl. You wouldn't expect to see thugs pull out german suplexes and moonsaults, would you? No.
3) His "cheesy" lines are from the ******* WWE "creative" team. They've been writing his material since he turned face. You notice his lines when he was a heel? Notice how they were much better? He was writing them at the time, but now, he doesn't write them. Instead, WWE writes his lines.
So yeah. Cena is a talented wrestler and i just had to get this out.
2.) Back when he was on Smackdown he did a lot more than he does now. It was a while ago, but I remember a few moves he had that he doesn't do anymore. Like the throwback. He wasn't so much a brawler then. He was a thug, but he did some technical moves and mat wrestled. He's not really a thug anymore. He's more like a rapper. You don't have to be a brawler to have a thug gimmick anyway, just the personality. The Rotweillers in ROH were basically a gang and they did more than just brawl. It's not his fault that his character has been messed up though.
3.) I completely agree with you on that. Look at his old stuff when he was a heel. He was awesome. Then you see him calling Jericho Y2Cheap. Something's not right. Although, people don't like him because of what he's doing now. It may be mostly WWE's fault, but if someone's bored by Cena you can't tell them it's all WWE's fault he sucks and expect them to start liking him. Whether it's WWE's fault or not, he is not as good as when he was a heel or a face with the U.S title.
#44
Posted 13 July 2006 - 02:09 AM
He's had some great matches but that has to do with whom he's in the ring with to make him look good. I think that the ECW Cena / RVD return match was a great match, but that's because RVD made it look good. When Cena and JBL used to wrestled each other, it was terrible and sloppy, so they kept putting them in different gimmick type matches to spice up their lack of ability.
Also, It's not because of the "6 moves of doom" that Cena sucks. It's that the moves done in "it" are not very well executed or impressive to watch. Who care about a poorly executed flying shoulder block? Who care about a spinning back suplex if it not well done? Who care about the F-U when it's just a poorly done Death Valley Driver? Who gets excited about a standard STF just beacause a "U" was added to it?
These other wrestlers mentioned have a set of trademark moves but it's not as stale or lame because they are performed well.
Edited by apoc2000, 13 July 2006 - 02:34 AM.
#45
Posted 13 July 2006 - 03:02 AM
#46
Posted 13 July 2006 - 07:38 AM
BucFan20, on Jul 13 2006, 12:19 AM, said:
#47
Posted 13 July 2006 - 05:40 PM
Only reason his moves are limited is so the moveset is easily recognizeable by kids so the fan count goes up, so the merch sales go up.
#48
Posted 13 July 2006 - 07:09 PM
#49
Posted 13 July 2006 - 08:12 PM
Anyways I agree with Thrizzy, he need to go back into the day when he would come out and do a quick "freestyle" diss about his oppent. And also Thrizzy was right again he is now just some guy that comes out with rap music.
#50
Posted 13 July 2006 - 08:43 PM
Anyway on topic:
Endzone if you ever got in a fight with a thug (not saying you did or didn't) but they only don't only throw punches. They punch, they kick, they'll do some minor holds (like a Head Lock etc.) and they cheat. When was the last time you heard of a good thug that fights for the people? This is what the WWE is trying to do with Cena. They are trying to make him a thug but at the sametime they are trying to make him a good guy.