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TNA vs WWE


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#1 C. Rich

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 11:40 PM

Ok well first of all, TNA massacred WWE.

WWE:
Bret Hart returns.
Hart and Michaels bury hatchet.
Vince and Hart reignite feud.

That's it. I can't believe that's all they pulled out to go against TNA.



TNA:
Full nWo reunion.
3 hours.
Flair, Hall, X-Pac, Val Venis, Jeff Hardy, Shannon Moore, Nasty Boys, and Orlando Jordan come to TNA.
Classic Angle vs Styles for TNA championship.
Full Metal Mayhem.

It was a GREAT night for TNA.

Who do you think had the better show? RAW was the same boring shit aside from Bret Hart's segments. Nothing special. TNA went hard at the competition.

#2 Stoneheart

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 02:01 AM

I haven't watched Raw or TNA for almost 2 years and by going with what
TNA offered, content wise, they owned WWE. Bret Hart is great but not enough
to pull out the win, in my opinion. No matter how many times Hogan comes out
of retirement, he'll still be a bigtime money draw, as much as I don't care for him,
he'll continue to draw crowds and money.


The one thing I've noticed when I did watch TNA, they structured their content
differently, at least how I've seen it. I remember seeing TNA in it's early years,
something special was brewing. TNA could very well be a threat to the "E" but
history has a way of repeating itself.


#3 Sharpshooter93

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 09:40 AM

Well it certainly looked like a great show from TNA, but how long will it continue? Consistency is what counts.

#4 Socom

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 10:02 AM

View PostC. Rich, on Jan 5 2010, 05:40 AM, said:

Vince and Hart reignite feud.
Not predictable at all.

#5 TheKGBIsAfterYou

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:03 AM

Yes Socom, they should have just finger ****ed each other and walked off. Even if WWE did the opposite, you'd find a way to bash it like a homo.


Anyway, as an overall show I felt TNA put on a better one. However, I completely marked out for Bret Hart and couldn't turn the channel during his segments (no homo). Angle vs Styles was better than Kingston/Orton, since they kept my attention more. Marked out for Hall & Nash, Val Venis, and Jeff Hardy (Didn't read any spoilers, which would be stupid, but I digress).

#6 1967 Spidey

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:22 AM

I turned off TNA during the first match. Seriously, a cage match ends in a DQ. Horrible booking by Russo. I would rather sleep.

#7 Ryan

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:39 AM

There are only so many wrestlers that can debut or redebut with a company until there's too many stars to push and besides the Styles/Angle match this is the only thing TNA achieved... They packed a load of new guys into their still old and tired formula. The key here is pushing forward and making consistant top quality programming. From what I've seen online of the TNA show (we won't get it officially until Saturday here in the UK) they put on a solid night but they really didn't improve on anything other than depth of roster. TNA has had talented big names for years and half the guys who debuted for TNA last night have worked there before and done it all before and achieved nothing for TNA. This time around they have to stay compelling and gradually improve overall as a product otherwise not much will change and the WWE won't work too hard at trying to edge them out as proved by their show last night.

Speaking of the WWE show... I think the WWE probably put on a better storytelling show than TNA but I'll give TNA the edge last night due to the bigger shock value. Bret coming back was jaw dropping when seen live but I don't think the HBK segment came across right, both guys clearly didn't believe what they were saying to each other and then we only got to see Bret another 2 times, once to tell Jericho off for being a douche and finally to get kicked by Vince. I understand this is the start of a big fued that has to be slowly built up as the pay off is going to be at 'Mania but come on... every other guest host is on the screen between every match yet they fail to milk Bret Hart who hasn't been a part of the WWE for 12 years and his big history with HBK, Vince, HHH etc. Yet some how he doesn't get rammed down our throats like everyone else does?

I think what last night proved is this. TNA want to be the new WCW (and good luck to them) and the WWE still doesn't take TNA seriously enough, evident by how they sucked in viewers by a huge announcement (Bret's return) but didn't give anyone enough of a reason to think this was a night any different to any other. I honestly think that this "war" isn't going to kick in until TNA consistantly gets around a 2.5-3.5 in the ratings because until then the WWE isn't going to feel pushed and TNA is still going to look minor league as it will have failed in capitalising on the amount of star talent they actually have.

#8 Socom

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 11:55 AM

View PostTheKGBIsAfterYou, on Jan 5 2010, 05:03 PM, said:

Yes Socom, they should have just finger ****ed each other and walked off. Even if WWE did the opposite, you'd find a way to
I would have rather Bret goes ape shit on Vince, more entering.

Quote

bash it like a homo.
Shit an insult by a G-mod in yellow legend. Sad face......

#9 slayerfan

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 01:20 PM

i think tna made a huge mistake going head to head with wwe because tna isn't a big enough company yet they need to build a bigger following and its just too soon for a monday night war

tna is going to end up getting crushed and vince will own tna in 1 or 2 years maybe even as soon as 6 months and it will be tna's own fault

i do find it very funny that tna is trying to be wcw because they are going to suffer the same fate as wcw

on the + side wrestling fans will get some great entertainment [for a little while anyway]

#10 TheKGBIsAfterYou

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 02:00 PM

Ah don't hurt my feelings Socom. I'm sorry all you do is ***** about WWE and use the same ****ing excuse to deflect any criticism. "It's my opinion"

Funny you'd insult me when you've been sitting at the mod level for 3 ****in years because you don't do shit and haven't for years. You're living on what you were 3 years ago. And no, I didn't forget about you making G-Mod for that little blip of your time here.

Bret go apeshit on Vince. Boy that really builds up for a PPV 2 months from now. Just give it away on RAW in January. But wait, wouldn't Bret kicking Vince's ass have been predictable?

#11 1967 Spidey

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 02:06 PM

Come on ladies, play nice in my garden of eden.

Im actually shocked the HArt Dynasty wasn't used at all last night considering they were even called to come up to RAW. Oh yeah, and one more reason buisness is about to pickup, Bryan Danielson wrestled his first dark match last night, its only a matter of time :D

#12 Socom

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 02:10 PM

[insert stars] I'm sorry if you don't agree with me but I just think it could of been done a better. We knew that bret and vince were going to square off at WM, but come on vince attacking bret! It should be the other way around. It's bret who got screwed.

I bash wwe because a lot of things that go on in wwe is stupid same goes for tna. I love how wwe has brought back bret hart but this storyline has been in the making for a long time. It would be a shame for wwe to screw it up.


Me mod for 3 years been longer then that. For me not doing anyhong for years your right! I'll post vg news buts the point not many read it. If it was not for the topics the video game board would be dead. Plus life comes before interwebz.

#13 TheKGBIsAfterYou

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 02:12 PM

If he works matches in WWE like he did ROH (Meaning back and forth no-selling matches that get put over for being better than they are), I'm going to be pissed. He has potential, but he's got a mark's mind state of wanting to be a great "5* technical worker" but completely missing the point. His psychology is close to nil, he has no true gimmick, and his charisma is lacking.

That said, I do want him to succeed. He does have potential, he just has a long way to go.

Edit: See, me and Socom can have rational discussion. Though this post is aimed at Danielson.

Double-Edit: He fagged out again

#14 1967 Spidey

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 02:22 PM

In some of his higher calibur matches with guys who don't wrestle a Puro style, (Like the one you saw, which is why it was full of fighting spirit spots etc), he has had great selling. If you can, check out his match with James Gibson (Jamie Noble) for the ROH Title a couple of years back. His gimmick was never anything big or anything small since he wanted to get over through his wrestling as a posed to a gimmick although he used heel traits like not breaking the rope until 4 and saying "I have 'till 5!' etc. Plus him being backstage with his mentor and trainer HBK will help him alot aswell as being with guys he previously trained with like Regal and Finlay.

#15 TheKGBIsAfterYou

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 03:35 PM

I love his "I've got 'til 5 referee!" bit. ****ing hilarious, and one of the few things he does that can help him break out of a pack. I'll try and find that Gibson match, but ROH has a pretty tight lid on their matches floating around the net.

The problem with getting by on his "wrestling", is that unless he's at the skill level that Benoit was (which he isn't at this point), he's just going to be another guy in tights to the mainstream fans. By selling, I don't necessarily mean how he takes the move at that time, but more so how he sells it over time. Another thing that bugs me is that there's rarely a good heat period in his matches. It's generally a "you do a couple of moves, I'll d a couple of moves" type deal, which leads me to believe that he has the misguided notion that he doesn't want to look weak by getting "beat up". (Which could be instinctive when coupled with his MMA training)

He is fiery, which is good. He needs to continue to try and get a better tan, but his build is nice. His moveset is unique at the WWE level, which is also good. HBK is always a plus, as are Finlay and Regal. He needs some resemblance of a gimmick (That doesn't have to be goofy, but it does need to be relate-able to the fans, then he takes that and makes it over the top to stand out) and he needs to start putting heat in his matches.

Quote

both guys clearly didn't believe what they were saying to each other

The hug and whatever HBK whispered to Hart afterwords certainly looked genuine. It just seems to me like both guys have moved on and are legitimately ready to put Montreal behind them. One of the better segments of the night because they sounded like real people with real issues, which rarely happens anymore.

#16 Simon

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 04:51 PM

View PostC. Rich, on Jan 5 2010, 05:40 AM, said:

Ok well first of all, TNA massacred WWE.
If a cluster**** of random debuts counts as a massacre, then WWE was massacred.
I still need to watch the AJ - Angle match though, as I didn't get that far with TNA (had to go to bed)

Quote

WWE:
Bret Hart returns.
Hart and Michaels bury hatchet.
Vince and Hart reignite feud.
TNA could have shown 3 hours of Velvet Sky porn and I'd choose these three things here.
Actually...

#17 TheKGBIsAfterYou

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 05:15 PM

There's nothing that would make me change the channel from Velvet Sky porn.

TNA pulled a 1.5 last night, which is probably a bit disappointing. WWE probably pulled around a 4.

#18 Sharpshooter93

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:07 AM

I heard they pulled a 2.2 and broke their own record, but the WWE easily beat them still.

#19 Socom

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:10 AM

View PostSharpshooter93, on Jan 6 2010, 02:07 PM, said:

I heard they pulled a 2.2 and broke their own record, but the WWE easily beat them still.
Pretty good for TNA since there ratings have been low recently.

#20 Simon

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:11 AM

View PostSharpshooter93, on Jan 6 2010, 02:07 PM, said:

I heard they pulled a 2.2 and broke their own record, but the WWE easily beat them still.
They got 2.2 Million viewers, but that isn't a 2.2 Rating. I don't understand either.

#21 Ryan

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:38 AM

View PostTheKGBIsAfterYou, on Jan 5 2010, 09:35 PM, said:

Quote

both guys clearly didn't believe what they were saying to each other

The hug and whatever HBK whispered to Hart afterwords certainly looked genuine. It just seems to me like both guys have moved on and are legitimately ready to put Montreal behind them. One of the better segments of the night because they sounded like real people with real issues, which rarely happens anymore.

The Hug and whispers to each other was a very genuine moment but you could tell that what was said over the mic (particularly Brets part) was heavily scripted. I think it would have been far better to just let them say what they had to say that way I think they would have actually been seen to be having a realistic conversation about letting Montreal go.

I don't think I would have found it that big of a deal if it wasn't for the fact that they didn't milk Bret, it just kind of pissed me off that he was used a little more sparingly than most hosts. I understand that they don't want to over expose him just yet but having said that there was still stuff he could have done, e.g. put the Hart Dynasty in a match, have a conversation with Mark Henry, etc.

As for the TNA ratings/viewers issue. Nielson ratings in America are exactly that it is a rating. 1.5 (TNA's rating for Monday) is a reflection of a combination of things that include how many watched the show, the share of the TV audience that they gained and a few other things. It doesn't just reflect how many millions tuned in which is why the rating isn't 2.2, it takes other aspects into account and sort of works out an everage rating based on this system that was produced. It's complicated, it's pointless and it sucks, I don't know why there is a need for this, lol but it is the way it works.

#22 Socom

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:42 AM

View PostSharpshooter93, on Jan 6 2010, 02:07 PM, said:

I heard they pulled a 2.2 and broke their own record, but the WWE easily beat them still.
Pretty good for TNA since there ratings have been low recently.

#23 Ryan

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:44 AM

Bret brought in 5.6 million viewers for the WWE on Monday as well, I don't know how that translates into Nielson ratings exactly but that has to be way higher than what they've managed in recent weeks/months.

#24 Socom

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:24 AM

5.6 Million wow thats a lot. Shows what Legends can do. TNA had Scot Hall, Hulk and Flair but Bret still manages to own. Wonder if he will be able to compete?

#25 TheKGBIsAfterYou

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 10:37 AM

5.6 should translate to around a 4