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#26 mark1

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 05:13 PM

i wish Cena knew how to cell and could work more on his delivery :lol:

#27 BucFan20

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 06:07 PM

I agree with DTM29 and Brad. If Cena went and asked to do more moves he would not be fired. He brings in a lot of money so I don't see why they would fire him. I don't think the younger Cena fans even care about what Cena does in his matches. It's not like they would refuse to buy his stuff because he starts putting on better matches.

Most wrestlers do have trademarked moves, but they don't use them all together like Cena does. An example of this is "The American Dragon" Bryan Danielson. I don't know how many people here have heard of him, but a lot of people consider him to be nearly as good as Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle.

He has a ton of trademarked stuff. When the other guy grabs the ropes the ref will tell him to break the hold and Danielson will tell him he has until 5, the surfboard stretch, airplane spin to a diving headbutt, and he now does this thing where he acts like his eye got hurt, the crossface chickenwing and there's more, too. I think he did most of those in his third match against Roderick Strong at Supercard of Honor and it was a great match.

The problem is not that he has trademark moves, but because most of his matches are the same thing. Usually his opponent doesn't matter either. He could be facing Big Show or HHH and the match will usually be the same.

wwf, how many times has HHH had an actual match with nothing but that stuff?

#28 wwfpooh

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 06:31 PM

BucFan20, on Jul 12 2006, 07:07 PM, said:

wwf, how many times has HHH had an actual match with nothing but that stuff?
Blue Blood gimmick or co-founder of the original DX, ring any bells?

#29 Corey Grandy

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 07:14 PM

Cena's popularity comes in demographics, in my opinion.

First there are the little children, both boys and girls. These kids are by no means incredible critics of actual wrestling, so they only make their decision on if they think the person is cool or not, or whther the person is a nice guy (face) or a mean guy (heel). A large percentage of this demographic absolutely love Cena, and everything he does.

Women come next. A lot of women are Cena fans simply because he is buff, but not too buff (ala Test currently). I'm not saying all women worldwide are Cena fans, but there are more female Cena fans than there are male Cena fans; as far as I'm concerned.

Finally the men. Yes, most people over 13 fit into this category. These are the kind of people who either love Cena or hate him. There are those who choose to analyze him (which is a school of thought I subscribe to), and those who are his unconditional fans; and that's cool and all. Most Cena fans like to point out how every other big name in the business has there own 'trademark set of moves'. This may be true, but, John Cena generally uses these as his only moves. Furthermore, just like Hulk Hogan, he refuses to properly sell a move, and somehow manages to get dominated in every match he's ever in, before winning in some astounding (yet never surprising) 'turn of events'.

If John expanded his list of moves, and started to sell moves, even half as good as some other top name wrestlers, I might be able to get behind him, just a little bit.




wwfpooh said:

BucFan20, on Jul 12 2006, 07:07 PM, said:

wwf, how many times has HHH had an actual match with nothing but that stuff?
Blue Blood gimmick or co-founder of the original DX, ring any bells?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those were years ago, and frankly what he was doing years ago has no relevance to what he's doing now. One could say the same for Cena. When he was a heel he was doing much better wrestling than he is now, but we can't use that as an insentive for people to like what's hes doing now.

#30 wwfpooh

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 07:45 PM

Corey Grandy, on Jul 12 2006, 08:14 PM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those were years ago, and frankly what he was doing years ago has no relevance to what he's doing now.

One could say the same for Cena. When he was a heel he was doing much better wrestling than he is now, but we can't use that as an insentive for people to like what's hes doing now.
Yes, we can, because that's my point. Even HHH, the prodicial son-in-law who's gonna run the company one day, has his own 'moves of doom' and repeated matches, and he's been doing that for far longer than Cena has. Same for Hogan, Rock, Austin, and others whom are stuck in that stigma. Hogan, because he, like Cena can't--or refuses to--sell correctly & is the deciding factor in all of his matches (hence why he wins EVERY damn match he comes back to); Rock, because he rarely returns & when he does, the fans only want to see his trademarked moves & phrases; Austin, because of his liability & like Rock, fans only want to see him stunner someone...

Edited by wwfpooh, 12 July 2006 - 07:53 PM.


#31 AND 1

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 07:46 PM

well theres lots of cena bashers out there but everyones different so everyones got different opinions..
anyway i dont think cena is all that cool as he tries to be..
but i think hes pretty good wrestler except the 6 moves ...
i think hes okay.. im 50/50 of him

#32 wwfpooh

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:06 PM

AND 1, on Jul 12 2006, 08:46 PM, said:

well theres lots of cena bashers out there but everyones different so everyones got different opinions..
anyway i dont think cena is all that cool as he tries to be..
but i think hes pretty good wrestler except the 6 moves ...
i think hes okay.. im 50/50 of him
Most big-time wrestlers now have the 5-8 moves of doom...

HHH, as previously stated with: Knee Lift, Anderson-esque Spinebuster, Cheat (Weapons or Low Blow) or Managerial Interferance, & Pedigree

Hogan: Body Slam (when younger), Axe Bomber Closeline (Japanese finisher), Hulk Up, Big Boot, & Atomic Leg Drop

Rock: Laying the Smackdown DDT, People's Spinebuster, Smackshooter, Rock Bottom & People's Elbow

Austin: Knee Strike, Mudhole Stomp (either as a turnbuckle or striking attack), Lou Thez Press Knuckles, & Stone Cold Stunner

Flair: Playing Dirty (see "Cheat" for HHH), Being Tossed off Top Rope, Beg-off Eye Rake, Low Blow, & Figure Four

Big Show (before deflecting to ECW): Closeline, Big Boot, Headbutt, Bear Hug, & Showstopper Chokeslam (or Hog Lock or Final Cut)

Khali (who's even worse than the rest combined): Toss, Big Boot, Headbut, Chokeslam, & Chop of Doom

And even my top faves:

2. Kane: Powerbomb (rarely done anymore), Throat Thrust, Kane Closeline off the top, Sit-Up (after being knocked down), & Chokeslam or Tombstone

1. Undertaker: Throat Thrust, Outside Plancha (Vintage Taker), Old School (Walking The Rope), Last Ride, Chokeslam, & Tombstone

Edited by wwfpooh, 12 July 2006 - 08:08 PM.


#33 BucFan20

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:20 PM

Trademark moves are different than what Cena's doing. Most of the time, that's all he does in the macth besides punches and getting beat up. HHH does not do that in every single match that way. Same goes for Taker, Kane, Rock, Flair, and Kane. Show used to something like that in most of his matches before he went to ECW.

Did you read what I said about Danielson? Every wreslter has trademark moves. CM Punk has the Pepsi Twist, Anaconda Vice, Pepsi Plunge, Welcome to Chicago. Low Ki has chops, kicks, Double Stomp, the other double stomp where the guy is hanging upside down from the turnbuckle, and the Ki Krusher. AJ Styles has his flip over the ropes, that backflip kick, shooting star press, and the Styles Clash. Those are their big, trademark moves, but that doesn't mean that's all they do in the match. Most of the time all Cena does in the match is throw punches, get beat up, and his trademark moves.

Edited by BucFan20, 12 July 2006 - 08:20 PM.


#34 wwfpooh

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:26 PM

BucFan20, on Jul 12 2006, 09:20 PM, said:

Trademark moves are different than what Cena's doing. Most of the time, that's all he does in the macth besides punches and getting beat up. HHH does not do that in every single match that way. Same goes for Taker, Kane, Rock, Flair, and Kane. Show used to something like that in most of his matches before he went to ECW.

Did you read what I said about Danielson? Every wreslter has trademark moves. CM Punk has the Pepsi Twist, Anaconda Vice, Pepsi Plunge, Welcome to Chicago. Low Ki has chops, kicks, Double Stomp, the other double stomp where the guy is hanging upside down from the turnbuckle, and the Ki Krusher. AJ Styles has his flip over the ropes, that backflip kick, shooting star press, and the Styles Clash. Those are their big, trademark moves, but that doesn't mean that's all they do in the match. Most of the time all Cena does in the match is throw punches, get beat up, and his trademark moves.
But that's in large part because WWE tells him to work from his trademarked moves. The downside in that is...all the marks want are to see the trademarked moves...

#35 BucFan20

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:39 PM

Yeah, I know WWE makes him do it, but really, what are they going to do to him if he asks for longer macthes and to be allowed to do more moves? They aren't going to fire him, he sells too much merchandise. The worse thing they would do to him is probably not let him do more moves.

What Grandy said about Cena fans that are little kids is true. They don't care about how good of a wrestler someone is. A few might, maybe, but most of them don't like him because of his wrestling skill. They like him because of his personality or the way he looks or because he's the good guy. Same goes for some of the women. They think Cena looks good. Another thing that doesn't affect his wrestling skill. The only people that are really booing him are some of the men. They'd probably like him again if he started wreslting better. Most of the little kids and women don't care about Cena's wrestling skill and are going to cheer him if he's a face and boo him if he's a heel. They aren't going to start booing him if he starts wrestling better.

#36 wwfpooh

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 08:44 PM

BucFan20, on Jul 12 2006, 09:39 PM, said:

Yeah, I know WWE makes him do it, but really, what are they going to do to him if he asks for longer macthes and to be allowed to do more moves? They aren't going to fire him, he sells too much merchandise. The worse thing they would do to him is probably not let him do more moves.

What Grandy said about Cena fans that are little kids is true. They don't care about how good of a wrestler someone is. A few might, maybe, but most of them don't like him because of his wrestling skill. They like him because of his personality or the way he looks or because he's the good guy. Same goes for some of the women. They think Cena looks good. Another thing that doesn't affect his wrestling skill. The only people that are really booing him are some of the men. They'd probably like him again if he started wreslting better. Most of the little kids and women don't care about Cena's wrestling skill and are going to cheer him if he's a face and boo him if he's a heel. They aren't going to start booing him if he starts wrestling better.
And the downside, we guys are a mere handful when compared to the kids and women, for there are certainly a lot of 'em...

#37 MC Coemgen

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:26 PM

The reason why I hate Cena is because his whole act is tried. It is just boring, I don't want to watch Raw so I can watch some wigger try to wrestle and then thinks he's tough because he can stand (Refuring to the Sabu incident a few weeks ago.) At least when he would come out and do a little freestyle about his oppenite at least he had something origanal that no one else has done before and sometimes it was ammusing. But then WWE killed it by every week having him come out with a pack of peanuts and saying "Suck on these nuts."

His whole chain gang thing is just flat out stupid. It has no point what so ever. It would be one thing if he was in a group and that was there name but thats not the case. It is just only lonely man that wishes he was in a gang.

And now his wrestling. It is old boring and basicly the same thing is done every week. Now thats not saying that he is the only one that does/did it, but the thing is that they would then atleast add a move or two. And whats up with the "Five Knucle Shuffle"? That move is even dumber than "The Peoples Elbow." And his finsher, it may look cool the first few times when you see it but it is not that hard of a move to do or have done to you.

#38 EndZone

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:42 PM

Ah yes. Allow me to explain something about Cena.

1) Im getting ******* sick of this "All his fans are young kids" bullshit. Yes, they are a portion, that i won't deny. However, many of his fans are 19-25 year old guys, including myself. You can clearly see older guys wearing Cena shirts and holding Cena signs. Hell, some even chant for Cena. So don't gimme that bullshit.

2) Cena has an overcome the odds character. What does that mean? He gets beat up most of the match then comes back at the end and wins. Is it a good idea? No. But that's what he's been given. Plus, his gimmick is that of a thug, and what do thugs do? They brawl. And because of this, Cena is forced to brawl. You wouldn't expect to see thugs pull out german suplexes and moonsaults, would you? No.

3) His "cheesy" lines are from the ******* WWE "creative" team. They've been writing his material since he turned face. You notice his lines when he was a heel? Notice how they were much better? He was writing them at the time, but now, he doesn't write them. Instead, WWE writes his lines.

So yeah. Cena is a talented wrestler and i just had to get this out.

#39 Syc

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 10:59 PM

EndZone, on Jul 13 2006, 12:42 AM, said:

They brawl. And because of this, Cena is forced to brawl. You wouldn't expect to see thugs pull out german suplexes and moonsaults, would you? No.
Ok even though he's a Thug he still has the ability to do German Suplex's. Take a look at Kane. A 7ft - 326lbs Big Red Monster can do a Diving Clothsline of the top Turnbuckle cant he? How about Visera doing a Spinning Wheel Kick or something like that? Dude the guy is 6'6" - 496 lbs! You dont usually See 500 pounders doing Spinning Wheel Kicks. So Cena a 6'3" - 260 lbs saying he cant do a German Suplex cause he is a Thug? So I suppose Kane the "Big Red Machine" cant do a Diving Clothsline off the top Turnbuckle anymore cause he's a Big Red Machine right? Then again this is WWE's choice so whatever. Sorry had to get that out too...

Edited by PoeticMetal, 12 July 2006 - 11:01 PM.


#40 EndZone

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:05 PM

When's the last time you saw a thug do a German Suplex?

#41 Syc

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:17 PM

I could use that very same question against you. As I take a Question from your previous post "You wouldn't expect to see thugs pull out german suplexes and moonsaults, would you? No." My question... Would you expect a 7ft - 326lbs Big Red Machine do a Diving Clothsline off the Top rope?No but he still does it right? Would you expect to see Brock Lesnar do a Shooting Star Press of the top Turnbuckle? No but he still Attempted it. So what Im trying to say here is that if Cena Would Ask WWE to expand his move variety more he might be more entertaining. Dont get me wrong I still like Cena but he has to do some more stuff. As my previous post its all up to WWE so lets forget about this and move on eh?

Edited by PoeticMetal, 12 July 2006 - 11:20 PM.


#42 mark1

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:18 PM

Lol whens the last time you saw a thug do a STF to someone in the streets? :lol:

Like I said. Guy can't sell for shit and his delivery needs work

#43 BucFan20

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 11:19 PM

EndZone, on Jul 12 2006, 11:42 PM, said:

Ah yes. Allow me to explain something about Cena.

1) Im getting ******* sick of this "All his fans are young kids" bullshit. Yes, they are a portion, that i won't deny. However, many of his fans are 19-25 year old guys, including myself. You can clearly see older guys wearing Cena shirts and holding Cena signs. Hell, some even chant for Cena. So don't gimme that bullshit.

2) Cena has an overcome the odds character. What does that mean? He gets beat up most of the match then comes back at the end and wins. Is it a good idea? No. But that's what he's been given. Plus, his gimmick is that of a thug, and what do thugs do? They brawl. And because of this, Cena is forced to brawl. You wouldn't expect to see thugs pull out german suplexes and moonsaults, would you? No.

3) His "cheesy" lines are from the ******* WWE "creative" team. They've been writing his material since he turned face. You notice his lines when he was a heel? Notice how they were much better? He was writing them at the time, but now, he doesn't write them. Instead, WWE writes his lines.

So yeah. Cena is a talented wrestler and i just had to get this out.
1.) Yeah, we were talking about how most little kids that like him don't care about his wrestling. I don't think anyone said only little kids and women like Cena in this topic. I said some men, too, because I know you're a Cena fan and there are men that cheer him.

2.) Back when he was on Smackdown he did a lot more than he does now. It was a while ago, but I remember a few moves he had that he doesn't do anymore. Like the throwback. He wasn't so much a brawler then. He was a thug, but he did some technical moves and mat wrestled. He's not really a thug anymore. He's more like a rapper. You don't have to be a brawler to have a thug gimmick anyway, just the personality. The Rotweillers in ROH were basically a gang and they did more than just brawl. It's not his fault that his character has been messed up though.

3.) I completely agree with you on that. Look at his old stuff when he was a heel. He was awesome. Then you see him calling Jericho Y2Cheap. Something's not right. Although, people don't like him because of what he's doing now. It may be mostly WWE's fault, but if someone's bored by Cena you can't tell them it's all WWE's fault he sucks and expect them to start liking him. Whether it's WWE's fault or not, he is not as good as when he was a heel or a face with the U.S title.

#44 apoc2000

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 02:09 AM

I think that John Cena is a good entertainer and a ,bad, in ring performer.

He's had some great matches but that has to do with whom he's in the ring with to make him look good. I think that the ECW Cena / RVD return match was a great match, but that's because RVD made it look good. When Cena and JBL used to wrestled each other, it was terrible and sloppy, so they kept putting them in different gimmick type matches to spice up their lack of ability.

Also, It's not because of the "6 moves of doom" that Cena sucks. It's that the moves done in "it" are not very well executed or impressive to watch. Who care about a poorly executed flying shoulder block? Who care about a spinning back suplex if it not well done? Who care about the F-U when it's just a poorly done Death Valley Driver? Who gets excited about a standard STF just beacause a "U" was added to it?

These other wrestlers mentioned have a set of trademark moves but it's not as stale or lame because they are performed well.

Edited by apoc2000, 13 July 2006 - 02:34 AM.


#45 mark1

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 03:02 AM

techincally, The F-U IS a fireman's carry

#46 wwfpooh

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 07:38 AM

BucFan20, on Jul 13 2006, 12:19 AM, said:

he is not as good as when he was
*is reminded of the song "As Good As I Once Was"by T. Keith*

#47 LBThrizzy

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 05:40 PM

Now, when it comes to Cena, anyone who hates on him because he has a small moveset is stupid, because, if anyone has seen the matches earlier in his career, you'd know guy cena wrestler. I was a big Cena fan, but now he's getting boring to me. He lost his gimmick. Where'd the throwbacks and fitteds go? He's just a regular guy with rap theme music. He needs to get interesting, and bring it back to the days of the Lesnar fued, the Undertaker feud, etc...


Only reason his moves are limited is so the moveset is easily recognizeable by kids so the fan count goes up, so the merch sales go up.

#48 Undertaker

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 07:09 PM

Who evers a hater there going down in history as the biggest hater

#49 MC Coemgen

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 08:12 PM

^^^ WTF are you talking about.

Anyways I agree with Thrizzy, he need to go back into the day when he would come out and do a quick "freestyle" diss about his oppent. And also Thrizzy was right again he is now just some guy that comes out with rap music.

#50 Dr. Evil619

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 08:43 PM

Wow this has to be one of the best treads I read because there's little flaming and everyone has something good to say that adds to the topic.

Anyway on topic:

Endzone if you ever got in a fight with a thug (not saying you did or didn't) but they only don't only throw punches. They punch, they kick, they'll do some minor holds (like a Head Lock etc.) and they cheat. When was the last time you heard of a good thug that fights for the people? This is what the WWE is trying to do with Cena. They are trying to make him a thug but at the sametime they are trying to make him a good guy.