Jump to content



My official "I hate Jeff Hardy" thread


  • Please log in to reply
110 replies to this topic

#51 undertaker ba

undertaker ba

    Code-X Mid-Carder

  • Code-X Legend
  • 4,296 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 August 2008 - 04:57 PM

Sorry about that Cena bit in here, but someone mentioned about Cena.

I do agree however about what Phoenix said. If Jeff Hardy only did ground work and no high bumps would he be cheered and would the crowd go wild for him? I have my doubts really as then he would be just one of the normal guys on the roster and quite possibly get lost in the shuffle like most of the average guys do. While his mic skills do have something left to be desired i have heard the crowd cheer for him while cutting a promo. The reason being is mostly becuase he is cutting into or poking fun of a heel. If memory serves this happened when he feuded with Randy Orton.

Now while its a fact he does get those "big bumps" or "high spots" in this is why alot of people watch his matches becuase they want to see if he will hit something big. I can even state that i watch his matches from time to time. Not normally RAW or Smackdown but at PPVs becuase thats normally when he would do something like in that MITB match i think when he went through Edge on the ladder. Also i am asuming it was him, unless Edge went thru it on his own.

I don't really watch him too often but when i do he does a big move that eathier helps him win or costs him the match.

#52 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 30 August 2008 - 04:59 PM

You must really be not watching often because he doesn't do too many high spots much anymore. And when he does it's into the ball pit type structures.

The cheer when he is cutting promos, just because they see him. And they cheer when they see him, because of the "high spots' he used to do. Anyone could get those reactions if they did those spots. So, they aren't cheering for him, they aren't cheering for his promos, they are cheering for his spots.

#53 DLT

DLT

    Thanks to Simon for the Avatar

  • Code-X Legend
  • 5,784 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 30 August 2008 - 06:04 PM

Watch his match with MVP from this Friday's smackdown. He wrestlers basically technically until the end of the match, and I dont think I'm wrong in saying the crowd doesn't seem bored.

#54 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 30 August 2008 - 06:14 PM

I just watched the first half, and I saw from Hardy a headlock, a shoulder block, and arm bar, and an arm drag. Plus assorted strikes and kicks. He held an armbar for about two minutes, that is pretty boring if you ask me. It wasn' showing much technical skill really, just a bunch of moves that are the first they show you in wrestling school.

#55 undertaker ba

undertaker ba

    Code-X Mid-Carder

  • Code-X Legend
  • 4,296 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 August 2008 - 09:51 PM

Sounds alot better then his usual matches to me :lol:

The crowd cheers at his promos though. Also that is depending on who he is cutting a promo against really. Also to me they don't seem to cheer due to his excellent mic skills :P (sarcasim). They seem to cheer becuase a heel got dissed usually.

Also your are correct as i haven't seen to many of Hardys matches as of late as i don't watch WWE too much on TV anymore. I started to watch the PPV's again recently(even though i,ve taped them the past few years :lol:). Also ive begun to watch RAW and Smackdown but its still rare for me to do that.

I usually catch what i want to watch on youtube or dailymotion.

Now i am not a Jeff Hardy hater, but i just am not into alot of the same old stuff some of the wrestlers do. No offence to them but there are somethings that interest me but i never am able to sit and watch RAW or Smackdown due to not having the time or being too tired or not wanting to till later.

#56 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 30 August 2008 - 09:54 PM

Heel getting dissed? Hardy's promos are always the same.

"Tonight I'm facing [name of opponent] I've wanted this all my life and [name] won't be able to stop me"

That is always pretty much it. No witty diss lines or anything. But for some reason, people cheer him.

#57 undertaker ba

undertaker ba

    Code-X Mid-Carder

  • Code-X Legend
  • 4,296 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 August 2008 - 10:49 PM

Maybe i am thinking of someone else possibly but i am pretty sure Hardy dissed Orton atleast once.

To me Orton vs Hardy was a good feud though cuase Orton brought out some of Hardys best work. As of Hardys recent work that was around the time i only found him worth watching really. Him vs Triple H and Umaga too, but those never lasted aslong as his stuff with Orton really and even that never lasted long.

EDIT: ah i edited my post just a few moments ago but it pretty much says the samething as before.

#58 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 30 August 2008 - 10:52 PM

I really don't remember any diss type remarks at all. I don't think he could even pull them off well enough.

Not just the fued with Orton, the fued with everyone really. They sound like that.

#59 Freehuey

Freehuey

    Code-X Mid-Carder

  • Code-X Legend
  • 1,972 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Palace of Wisdom
  • Code-X History: Former Administrator

Posted 31 August 2008 - 09:40 PM

Not one wrester, really? No. Fans will go nuts whenever anyone climbs something high up

Please, give examples. Not just wrestlers, but MULTIPLE moments where a wrestler climbed something and the crowd went nuts every time. For every one you name, I can name a Jeff Hardy moment guaranteed.

Really, he doesn't know how to make the crowd do anything. He only gets his applause because of the "spots" he used to do

Really? You know why every single fan cheers for him? lol

Big deal he can clap and the crowd screams

lmao, that should be all the more reason why you give someone respect. If someone can get the crowd to cheer for him by clapping how is he NOT incredibly over? Jack Evans has to flip 2000 times in the air to get over, Jeff Hardy claps and is over...I wonder who the better wrestler is...hmmmmm

And bust his ass? Crap. If he was so determined and devoted to his job, he wouldn't have been fired, suspended, and missed so many shows now would he?

People make mistakes, you don't know him, you don't know what really was going on. Don't judge someone based of information you know nothing about, it won't get you any where in life.

The PhonenixSplash is Jeff Hardy a good wrestler check list

What makes a good wrestler, for one, ring skills. Don't be sloppy, and have a wide variety of moves.

vs. HHH
vs. Orton
ANY match vs. Umaga
vs. MVP
Elimination Chamber

These are from the top of my head quick, and from within a year.

Actually change it up based on situation and who you are facing.

Definitely does this, see the matches above.

Being a good wrestler over all

Coverd this.

mic skills are needed

You may have this one. While he isn't the best on the mic he is not BAD by any means. I will not say he is is stand out though.

Charisma is needed.

Well you did say he can get the crowd to react by clapping so yeah, he for sure has this.

Have to be able to sell based on situation.

Hardy is one of the best sellers going right now.

So based on what you think is a good wrestler Jeff matches ALL that, why hate?

And thanks.



[If Jeff Hardy only did ground work and no high bumps would he be cheered and would the crowd go wild for him? I have my doubts really as then he would be just one of the normal guys on the roster and quite possibly get lost in the shuffle like most of the average guys do.

Why does he have to do ground work? Why can't he be a high flyer? If you took away Benoits mat skill he wouldn't be shit, however why would you take away someones best quality?

[i]Anyone could get those reactions if they did those spots.[/i]

Then why doesn't vince put every young high flier in his position seeing it is so easy to get them over?

#60 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 31 August 2008 - 10:02 PM

Dah, that confused the heck out of me with no quote tags, lat.

Examples where crowd goes nuts, gladly.

CZW Tournament of Death 2. Nick Mondo and Zandig go on the roof
CZW TOD 1. NIck Mondo and Homeless Jimmy on the Ryder Truck
KOTDM 05 (I think) Ace Cutter off of a scaffold
CZW TOD 6 JC Bailey off of a house
CZW TOD ? Drake Younger off of a buliding
IWA MS Drake Younger off of the ceiling
Whacks off of the rafters
Foley off of the cell

Yes, I listed the falls. But they got huge pops for climbing the structures. I could name more if needed, don't worry.

I don't know why every single one does, but that seems like a good reason too be.

Dude, Necro Butcher can clap and the crowd screams. Ian Rotten can do this. Anyone in WWE who is face can do this really. Not everyone, but the ones who have enough exposure. Evans doesn't need to do the flips to get over, he gets over well without them in matches. He just chooses to do them, and does them because he can. But, does a 630 make him a good wrestler? No it does not.

No, I don't know him. But being fired and suspended for getting to shows late or not going at all. This doesn't seem committed if you ask me. If there was something going on, he would have informed the company some time. And not be suspended and fired like he was in TNA.

What is a phonenix! :confused:

Orton and MVP could carry him through the match. Vs Triple H, the only difference from the other matches, was that e ended it with a roll up and not a Swanton. How about, you re watch those matches, and take note of the dead sell and comeback/face roll up wins. And the Chamber performance I honestly don't remember well, so no comment on that one.

He does not change it up. It is still practically the same stuff over and over. Those matches included.

I didn't see anything covered really.

He is bad on the mic. For one, he speaks too quick. And does the whole thing in one sentence. No pauses, no drama, nothing. This going by his rare but recent promos.

They are cheering for his spots. His charisma isn't doing any of it.

Not by situation he isn't. It's dead sell every match. That and some scream and shaking occasionally. But mainly, just dead sell.

By what I said, I see Jeff as NONE of that. So why love?

If that is his best skill, that is sad. Jumping off ladders is hardly a skill at all. Backyard idiots can do this.

I don't know why he wouldn't. Well for one, the only high flyer they have is Sydal. But maybe Vince doesn't want to risk injury too much. Even with them jumping in the ball pit. Or he doesn't want to be a one trick pony promotion.

I love these sporratic comebacks of yours. Gives me some good debates now and then.

#61 Freehuey

Freehuey

    Code-X Mid-Carder

  • Code-X Legend
  • 1,972 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Palace of Wisdom
  • Code-X History: Former Administrator

Posted 31 August 2008 - 10:22 PM

Sorry for the quotes, I like to dissect my debates.

lol, you can't compare Jeff Hardy making thousands of people go nuts to indy wrestlers making 200 people go crazy. BIG difference.

Dude, Necro Butcher can clap and the crowd screams.

Again, a indy crowd and a WWE crowd are two very, very different examples.

Anyone in WWE who is face can do this really.

Cena, HHH, HBK, Undertaker, Mysterio, Hardy can do that, and if I could have my name mentioned with those greats I would say your doing something right. And Batista seems to have his fans in different parts of the US.

But being fired and suspended for getting to shows late or not going at all.

Your bringing up personal problems from years ago, did he no show a event your supposed to go to now your holding a grudge?

Orton and MVP could carry him through the match.

I love both of those two but neither wrestler is good enough at this point in their career to carry someone to really good matches.

How about, you re watch those matches, and take note of the dead sell and comeback/face roll up wins. And the Chamber performance I honestly don't remember well, so no comment on that one.

He does not change it up. It is still practically the same stuff over and over. Those matches included.


Pretty much, I think you need to do the rewatching.

I didn't see anything covered really.

...I made a list of his good matches.....the good matches show he is a good wrestler.....because good matches indicate that.....which is why it was coverd......

He is bad on the mic. For one, he speaks too quick. And does the whole thing in one sentence. No pauses, no drama, nothing. This going by his rare but recent promos.

Well I guess that is just your opinion on mic skills then cuz he doesn't bother me at all. He doesn't get me excited or stand out, but I've never been bothered. I guess I just don't expect everyone to have to rely on having the mic skills of a Cena or Rock to entertain me. I kind of like wrestling for the matches, silly me.

They are cheering for his spots. His charisma isn't doing any of it.

Again, your acting like you know why every fan cheers for him. Your argument doesn't make any sense because you have no facts to back it.

Not by situation he isn't. It's dead sell every match. That and some scream and shaking occasionally. But mainly, just dead sell.

Honestly, I don't even know what you mean by dead sell.

If that is his best skill, that is sad. Jumping off ladders is hardly a skill at all. Backyard idiots can do this.

That is why backyard idiots are in the back yard being idiots and Jeff Hardy is making crazy money and one of the top stars in WWE.

#62 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 31 August 2008 - 10:35 PM

They still get them to clap. And Foley off of the cell is no indy moment my friend. The point is, fans are attracted to danger. It doesn't matter who is doing it. It can be Jeff Hardy, John Zandig, Mick Foley, or Nick Mondo. People will be excited by it. But it doesn't make them good wrestlings.

Indy crowds are harder to excite really. Since they pay attention and actually know good wrestling. Well, depends what indy promotion really, but ROH is one that knows good wrestling and pays attention. They call you on it when they see something they don't like.

Batista, Kennedy, Matt Hardy, Evan Bourne, etc. WWE crowds are excited easily by faces. If they clap the crowd will scream. Happens all the time in tag matches or if someone is in a headlock. But almost all faces can get the crowd to scream.

I would not want Jeff Hardy to be at one of my shows. But really, big deal if it was a year ago, if it was the whole year pretty much. It isn't showing great devotion if you ask me.

I beg to differ, Orton and MVP could carry someone to a good match. With Jeff all they have to do is hit their signatures and have him dead sell. MVP has been carrying the whole feud, generating all the heat on him, while all Jeff does is show up pretty much.

In my mind at least I disproved them. At least tried, lat.

How can you not be bothered by it? I mean, we all watch it for the matches, but it doesn't mean we don't get annoyed by crappy promos and what not. He puts practically no effort in them. It seems like he is reading them right off of a script. I'm surprised we haven't seen him say "Point and smile" yet. His promos add nothing to the angles that he is in.

I posted it a while back. Dead sell- Somewhat of a smark term for acting dead when selling a move. As in, not moving and just laying there really.

If WWE wanted people to just jump off of stuff they could be saving a lot of money signing the backyard fools. Since they seem to be doing the same as Hardy if jumping is his best skill.

#63 Freehuey

Freehuey

    Code-X Mid-Carder

  • Code-X Legend
  • 1,972 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Palace of Wisdom
  • Code-X History: Former Administrator

Posted 31 August 2008 - 10:58 PM

They still get them to clap. And Foley off of the cell is no indy moment my friend. The point is, fans are attracted to danger. It doesn't matter who is doing it. It can be Jeff Hardy, John Zandig, Mick Foley, or Nick Mondo. People will be excited by it. But it doesn't make them good wrestlings.

However just because you can get a indy crowd to clap doesn't mean that your able to get thousands of people to cheer you.

My bad about the Foley one, I'll match that one with Hardy/Umaga cage moment.

And yeah it does matter who it is, no one cares about Zandig jumping off something except for 140 people in a hot sweaty gym who like to complain that WWE isn't violent enough and suck at everything they do.

Indy crowds are harder to excite really. Since they pay attention and actually know good wrestling. Well, depends what indy promotion really, but ROH is one that knows good wrestling and pays attention.

Indy fans THINK they know good wrestling. But indy fans like 40 minute technical fests between two people with little charchter. I'm not saying those are bad, because I to love indy wrestling, it is just most of what indy crowds like is a niche product. That is why they are indy fans. WWE and Jeff Hardy are NOT indy, they are world wide, and world wide Hardy is loved.

Batista, Kennedy, Matt Hardy, Evan Bourne

Batista, yeah sometimes.
Kennedy, wouldn't say that he could get a crowd to love him with the clap of his hands by far. He does have a nice following but I would never mention his name with the greats just yet in his career.
Matt Hardy is getting there but still has a ways to go before he is mentioned with top names.
Really? Evan Bourne? The ECW guy? Matt Sydal? Your trying to tell me he gets the same reactions as
Cena, HHH, HBK, Undertaker, Mysterio, and Hardy? H.O.H.O LOL!

In my mind at least I disproved them. At least tried, lat.

Disproved what? Not sure what your replying to there.

How can you not be bothered by it? I mean, we all watch it for the matches, but it doesn't mean we don't get annoyed by crappy promos and what not.

Yeah but your being much to picky if you annoyed by Hardy promos. They are normally to get the feud over more, quick, and to the point. Not much to be annoyed by.

Ok, lmao. A good face is SUPPOSED to sell like he is dead. It gets the heels over. It makes the heel look much stronger. It builds a dramatic come back. It is the most basic thing to being a face. Do yourself a favor and check out the Secrets of the Ring series with Raven at rohwrestling.com to educate yourself about what good a good seller does.

#64 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 31 August 2008 - 11:09 PM

However just because you can get a indy crowd to clap doesn't mean that your able to get thousands of people to cheer you.

One thousand indy fans cheering virtually equals Ten Thousand WWE Fans cheering. So, given the chance the indies could get over just as well, probably more than Jeff Hardy does.

My bad about the Foley one, I'll match that one with Hardy/Umaga cage moment.

I can bust out tons of Japan moments for you. Try and match that.

And yeah it does matter who it is, no one cares about Zandig jumping off something except for 140 people in a hot sweaty gym who like to complain that WWE isn't violent enough and suck at everything they do.

If Zandig jumped twenty feet inside of a WWE arena, the crowd would go ballistic. The fact that he did it in the CZW arena, only means that not as much people saw it.

Indy fans THINK they know good wrestling. But indy fans like 40 minute technical fests between two people with little charchter. I'm not saying those are bad, because I to love indy wrestling, it is just most of what indy crowds like is a niche product. That is why they are indy fans. WWE and Jeff Hardy are NOT indy, they are world wide, and world wide Hardy is loved.

Not think really. They do know good wrestling. I've seen Jeff go to indies for shows. Reactions weren't all too great. I believe he went to the "New Land of extreme" CZW. He should fit in fine if he is so crazy. Wrong. But indies accept a wide variety of matches. Just mainly not crap fests with two giants facing off or two guys with no skill. Excluding stuff like Kenny The Box or something.

H.O.H.O

Santa? But I didn't say that he had the same charisma as Cena. I said he could get the crowd wild by clapping his hands. Because really, almost every face with exposure in the WWE can.

Jeff's promos do nothing for a feud. Like I said before it's generic. Like I face [name] And [name] won't be able to stop me tonight. And he talks like he is reading straight from a script. No drama or emphasis. It doesn't help a fued at all.

Not after EVERY move. Against EVERY opponent. I think you need to watch some Shawn Michaels, and see some situational selling. As in it actually changes by time, opponent, move, and the whole thing.

#65 Freehuey

Freehuey

    Code-X Mid-Carder

  • Code-X Legend
  • 1,972 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Palace of Wisdom
  • Code-X History: Former Administrator

Posted 31 August 2008 - 11:39 PM

One thousand indy fans cheering virtually equals Ten Thousand WWE Fans cheering.

If you can name one of those spots that actually a thousand people at the event cheering them then great point, however you can't. And by NO math that you try to say does 1,000 fans equal 10,000 fans no matter what fed it is.

So, given the chance the indies could get over just as well, probably more than Jeff Hardy does.

lol, how arent the indies given a chance? They get to do what ever they want, book who ever they want, and get over however they want. But still, Jeff Hardy has more fans than most indy federations have fans for their entire promotion.

I can bust out tons of Japan moments for you. Try and match that.

Which would prove my point. In order for you to name more moments that the crowd went wild for a spot you have to resort to naming a bunch of Japan spots with a ton of different wrestlers that probably required a lot more pain and suffering to their body. I can take one wrestler and name a ton of spots that were half as dangerous, and got over by the SAME guy. My point is Jeff hardy is given more death defying moments that got over huge with the crowd than any one wrestler, except for Mick Foley. However Foley and Hardy are still two very different wrestlers.

If Zandig jumped twenty feet inside of a WWE arena, the crowd would go ballistic.

The reality of that is that the crowd would ohh and ahh at the spot but seeing they don't care about Zandig, know who he is, or have any emotional attachment to him he would fall under the radar faster than he drops from whatever they have him fall of.

I believe he went to the "New Land of extreme" CZW. He should fit in fine if he is so crazy.

CZW is full of wresters who truly have no skill and truly rely on hardcore spots to stay over. Jeff Hardy has talent. Jeff Hardy would not fit well in CZW.

And the only indy I know he didn't get a good reception from was RoH but that was at a time where he said he lost his passion for wrestling. RoH fans thrive on passion for wrestling, they booed his ass out of the building because of it. Not because he is a bad wrestler.

Santa?

Sorry, lol. Can't stop playing Chamillionaires "Internet Nerds Revenge".

But I didn't say that he had the same charisma as Cena. I said he could get the crowd wild by clapping his hands. Because really, almost every face with exposure in the WWE can.

I'm not to into repeating arguments that I already made so if you want to know what I think about this go back and read what I've already said.

Jeff's promos do nothing for a feud. Like I said before it's generic. It doesn't help a fued at all.

But the best part of his promos is that it obviously doesn't HURT a feud at all. So what doesn't hurt can only help right?

Not after EVERY move. Against EVERY opponent. I think you need to watch some Shawn Michaels, and see some situational selling. As in it actually changes by time, opponent, move, and the whole thing.

That is actually a funny coincidence you should bring up HBK. I was watching some of his stuff vs. The Undertaker earlier and noticed how well he sells for Taker. He always took the bump huge making Undertaker look like he just murdered Shawn with every punch but always looked like a complete contender to win the match. I see that in Jeff Hardy. He sells making the person he is facing look like a million bucks, much like Shawn, and that is a skill not many have.

#66 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 31 August 2008 - 11:52 PM

If you can name one of those spots that actually a thousand people at the event cheering them then great point, however you can't. And by NO math that you try to say does 1,000 fans equal 10,000 fans no matter what fed it is.

Jack Evans double moonsault off of a cage. ROH. Forget what event. Over a thousand fans. Perhaps my math was a tad exaggerated.

lol, how arent the indies given a chance? They get to do what ever they want, book who ever they want, and get over however they want. But still, Jeff Hardy has more fans than most indy federations have fans for their entire promotion

They don't get nearly as much exposure as they should. If the world new more abou the indie guys. WWE could be shut down probably. But indies don't have the money that WWE has, thus they don't get exposure.

One wrestler you want? How about Sick Nick Mondo. Or Necro Butcher. Or Zandig. These guys have done more spots in a month than Hardy has done in his life. All of which get over with the crowd in attendance.

The reality of that is that the crowd would ohh and ahh at the spot but seeing they don't care about Zandig, know who he is, or have any emotional attachment to him he would fall under the radar faster than he drops from whatever they have him fall of.

Not if he could do it consistently. What are the odds someone just comes, jumps, and then disappears forever? Not too great. If CZW did the stuff they did within a WWE arena, the crowds would be insane for them. Mark outs as far as the eye could see. And the crowd would be attatched to them, no doubt.

CZW is full of wresters who truly have no skill and truly rely on hardcore spots to stay over.

I'm really glad I posted that topic. Look down a few. Titled little CZW Facts. That should answer your statement.

So what doesn't hurt can only help right

Not really. It can let everyone know you don't have mic skills. Waste a few minutes of the show. And bug the crap ouf of me, lat.

PLease. PLEASE. Don't compare Jeff Hardy to Shawn Michaels. They aren't even close. As for the selling, HBks varied against opponent. Or storyline. Or injury. Against Taker there, it fit to be doing it. Against MVP, it doesn't. And doing it every week doesn't quite fit either.

EDIT: http://www.code-x.ws...showtopic=77535 That CZW topic for you.

#67 Freehuey

Freehuey

    Code-X Mid-Carder

  • Code-X Legend
  • 1,972 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Palace of Wisdom
  • Code-X History: Former Administrator

Posted 02 September 2008 - 08:16 PM

Jack Evans double moonsault off of a cage. ROH. Forget what event. Over a thousand fans. Perhaps my math was a tad exaggerated.

All right, I'll match that with Hardy's cage dive to Umaga.

They don't get nearly as much exposure as they should. If the world new more abou the indie guys. WWE could be shut down probably. But indies don't have the money that WWE has, thus they don't get exposure.

As they should? If they are good enough they get the exposure. If your a bunch of hard core spot whores in CZW that no one cares about you DONT get the exposure.

One wrestler you want? How about Sick Nick Mondo. Or Necro Butcher. Or Zandig. These guys have done more spots in a month than Hardy has done in his life. All of which get over with the crowd in attendance.

So it is ok for those three to do MORE spots than Jeff, but Jeff does spots and you have no idea why he is over? Yeah, makes perfect sense buddy!

It is also funny to me how they can all do MORE spots than Jeff, but still Jeff is WAY more over than all three. lolz

Not if he could do it consistently. What are the odds someone just comes, jumps, and then disappears forever?

Now, what I used there was wordplay. I didn't mean it literally, think about it son.

If CZW did the stuff they did within a WWE arena, the crowds would be insane for them. Mark outs as far as the eye could see. And the crowd would be attatched to them, no doubt.

Yup. My question is, if this idea is so concrete why doesn't Vince do it and make even more money than he already has?

I'm really glad I posted that topic. Look down a few. Titled little CZW Facts. That should answer your statement.

Redo that list of wrestlers who acually stayed and were on the main part of the roster and you would actually have a point. Otherwise they are all wrestlers who just came through prlly for a paycheck and did nothing hardcore that CZW is famed for. So, no it doesn't much.

It can let everyone know you don't have mic skills. Waste a few minutes of the show. And bug the crap ouf of me, lat.

Well, one fan over the thousands upon thousands of fans should get Vince changing things ASAP!

PLease. PLEASE. Don't compare Jeff Hardy to Shawn Michaels. They aren't even close. As for the selling, HBks varied against opponent. Or storyline. Or injury. Against Taker there, it fit to be doing it. Against MVP, it doesn't. And doing it every week doesn't quite fit either.

I also think Jeff compares to Shawn in the way that they have long hair.

As for the selling, Jeff Hardy definetely didn't sell the same way to Undertaker as he did MVP so your point = dumb.

#68 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 02 September 2008 - 09:09 PM

So it is ok for those three to do MORE spots than Jeff, but Jeff does spots and you have no idea why he is over? Yeah, makes perfect sense buddy!

Rephrase that one for me. Got confused here. No idea what you are trying to say.

Yup. My question is, if this idea is so concrete why doesn't Vince do it and make even more money than he already has?

Censors, danger, wrestlers health, etc. But, in CZW, those things seem to not apply.

Redo that list of wrestlers who acually stayed and were on the main part of the roster and you would actually have a point. Otherwise they are all wrestlers who just came through prlly for a paycheck and did nothing hardcore that CZW is famed for. So, no it doesn't much.

ECW was famed for Hardcore too. But that isn't all it was about now is it?

Excuse the crap arguement here. Been real busy. And I'm leaving soon, so won't get some in for a while.

#69 undertaker ba

undertaker ba

    Code-X Mid-Carder

  • Code-X Legend
  • 4,296 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 September 2008 - 11:12 PM

I am not much into Indys but ive checked out some stuff for CZW and other videos on youtube. Also i watched the Original ECW. Now while CZW or even the Original ECW(after Eastern Championship Wrestling) both are hardcore/violent. Now that not with standing this doesn't mean that all they do is hardcore and violent stuff. I mean look at Eddie vs Beniot in ECW. Those matches were great cuase ive seen them on youtube and they had one at a One Night Stand.

Now i am not too sure if CZW has those types of matches but i am sure that some of those guys who just passed thru like CM Punk, AJ Styles, Petey Williams, Charlie Haas and whoever else didn't go there just for a pay check. They went there to eathier find competition aswell or for a change in enviorment or to learn from the experience. Whatever the reason i am also sure that those guys never thought they would make it in the big time but they were striving for it. So sure they probably had no intention of staying there for long term as i am sure alot of them would jump for the chance to go to the WWE or even TNA. Some of those guys may choose to stay there though as this would be called loyalty then. CM Punk i would imagine had making it to the top on his mind but i am sure his focus was on one day at a time so holding the World Title in the WWE was far from his mind i am sure at the time of wrestling in the indies, and TNA.

My point is no matter who you are and if you make it big in the bussiness there will be people who dislike you or even hate you and even the big stars had to start somewhere and take a path towards the big time. some big names path is in the indies and TNA or WCW and ECW depending on how far back you go.

Look at ECW they had Beniot, Eddie, Rey Mysterio, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, Rob Van Dam. These are men that all made names for themselves and held the World Title or WWE(WWF). Also Raven held the NWA Title. Then there are Tag Team Legends and by that i mean they have contributed so much to Tag Team Wrestling. The Dudleys were one that i can think of at the moment.

So in closing here even though a wrestling could be passing thru a promotion doesn't mean they don't get anything from it or the promotion doesn't get anything from them.

#70 PLA ICON

PLA ICON

    PHOENIX'S BITTER BITTER RIVAL!

  • Code-X Member
  • 2,830 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

Posted 03 September 2008 - 01:12 AM

I'm gonna keep this semi short. I haven't read every post but I know enough about why Phoenix mainly hates Jeff..

Phoenix explain to me why you complain that Jeff's arsenal is all high spots and whatnot and you hate him yet Jack Evans does the exact same thing to get his "HUGE" pops and he's like a freaking god to you...

Please tell me why is it okay for jack Evans to be Mr. flippy but its not okay for Jeff...

100 bucks says Jack Evans would not get near the amount of pop Jeff Hardy does and yet Jack, in your mind, is better...

Matt Sydal is much better than both jack and jeff when it comes to preciseness and when to hit said "high flippy" spots and yet he's BARELY making any impact in ECW...If fans are so attracted to high spots why isn't Matt getting the type of Pops Jeff gets? For that matter how come Shane did TONS of spots crazier than Jeff and HE didn't get the type of pops Jeff gets?

As for the dead selling typical face comeback...HE'S A FACE!!! Thats what the agents tell them to do most of the time..It's pretty dam normal..even your boy Jack does the normal beat down face comeback...

Also don't say Jack has superior matt skills because he doesn't...I have yet to see a single Jack Evans match where he has impressed me with anything BUT high spots...

Please if you can provide evidence of any matches where he shows that he can actually work a match and not rely on huge spots to get him over with the crowd(for that particular match) then by all means post it.

#71 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 03 September 2008 - 05:10 AM

Icon. Why do people keep assuming that is the ONLY reason I hate him? Evans is fun to watch with the athleticism, but by no means is he a good wrestler because of it, like people make out Jeff to be.

You ask the same question there.

Why not? Crowds like amazing things, Evans does them. I bet he'd get more pops than Jeff.

For one, Sydal's only been there a few weeks. And It's ECW! Isn't known enough, and isn't given a super push Like Jeff.

Dead selling and comebacks are for faces. But he does it ALWAYS. I've seen him do it with small guys even.

Jack Evans vs El Generico PWG.... I can't remember the name of the event, but I'll search when I get the time.

#72 undertaker ba

undertaker ba

    Code-X Mid-Carder

  • Code-X Legend
  • 4,296 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 September 2008 - 06:17 AM

If i may add that Jack Evans and Matt Sydal also haven't had as big of TV Exposure as Jeff Hardy has. So obviously Jeff Hardy would get more pops then those 2 guys. Also thats not to say those 2 guys don't get any.

Also Shane not getting any pops? Are you kidding me? Haven't you heard the crowd in his matches. I heard them in Kurt angle vs Shane McMahon King of The Ring 2001 i think it was. Kurt Angle Olympic Slams him off the top rope using a board as a platform. Also suplex thru the glass.

Anyways i beleive it depends on how much TV Exsposure a Wrestler gets, or even Exsposure thru other forms of media. If 2 wrestlers are equal in talent and have similar styles but Wrestler A gets more Exsposure then Wrestler B then Wrestler A will be more well known and be cheered more where as Wrestler B will be less known.

This is just my veiws on this and might not be totally right.

#73 PLA ICON

PLA ICON

    PHOENIX'S BITTER BITTER RIVAL!

  • Code-X Member
  • 2,830 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

Posted 03 September 2008 - 02:24 PM

k i didnt say that was the ONLY reason Phoenix..pl;ease re-read as I clearly said that is one of your main arguments..dont say it isn't cuz ive seen u complain that he does shitty high spots or w/e

ba- I didnt say he got no pops...again re-read and stop picking out things and re-writing them or not quoting properly...I said shane didn't always get the same ammount of pop Jeff does...

My argument is that Phoenix complains that Jeff Dead sells and relies on high spots to get pops...Ummm helllo Jack Evans does the same thing!
Of course he's gonna dead sell thats his style....I see NOTHING wrong with it....Are you gonna say Devon sucks because he spasms on almost every sell?

I just think your reasons for HATING Jeff are ridiculous.

As for Sydal...According to you Jeff gets huge pops because of his spots so why isn't Sydal getting the same type of pops if its only based on SPOTS....hmmm?

I'm sure you'll go back to the same "exposure" argument but up until that last post you never said Jeff got over because he was "heavily" pushed which is also a crock of shit because before the last 2 years i'll say he's been doomed to mid card/tag team status...

#74 phoenixsplash630

phoenixsplash630

    Hargy Noob Count: 24

  • Code-X Member
  • 17,084 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Code-X History: Former Moderator

Posted 03 September 2008 - 02:34 PM

Quote

Of course he's gonna dead sell thats his style....I see NOTHING wrong with it....Are you gonna say Devon sucks because he spasms on almost every sell?

Nothing wrong with dead selling a leg kick practically? Or Dead selling EVERY move. Against EVERY opponent. Devon only does his shake thing after high impact moves. It isn't really a spasm, it's just his leg that twitches.

Quote

As for Sydal...According to you Jeff gets huge pops because of his spots so why isn't Sydal getting the same type of pops if its only based on SPOTS....hmmm?

It is the exposure man. Sydal is a far superiour wrestler to Jeff Hardy. Has superior mic skills (That isn't saying much though) Better charisman, and CAN work as a heel. His ring work is much less sloppy than Jeff. And Sydal doesn't get all his credit for high spots. Since he really doesn't do high spots. Just his fast paced athletic style. Not like jumping thirty feet into a ballpit.

Last two years? When did he return, like 07? And when he did, he feuded with The CHAMPION. He was involved with that angle with Edge for a while. Feuded with Orton and Triple H as well. And the only time they had him "down" he was the Intercontinental champion. So, yes, he has been pushed.

#75 PLA ICON

PLA ICON

    PHOENIX'S BITTER BITTER RIVAL!

  • Code-X Member
  • 2,830 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

Posted 03 September 2008 - 02:49 PM

didnt I say BEFORE the last 2 years...soo yeah he was "down" before his return in '07...

again please READ CAREFULLY what I say....You seem to be doing that alot...Just reading what you wanna see and argue about..

I clearly said "before the last 2 years i'll say he's been doomed to mid card/tag team status..."

In other words...Until his return in '07 and before his departure to TNA he was in the midcard ranks and wasn't heavily pushed...Thats BEFORE 2007

I know plenty of guys who sell the same every match practically...I'm not backing up Jeff as the best or even worthy of his push but your reasons for HATING him are really flawed because theres other guys out there who are worse in the WWE...

You keep saying he's only popular because of his high spots but then you say of course he's going to be popular because fans eat that up so what exactly is your argument here? Is it wrong for him to be cheered cuz fans love his spots?? The fans cheer your boy Evans for the same exact thing!!! You keep saying ball pit spots but thats only been recent....